WHy Charter Oak CNC MILL?

[new2cnc4]

Helllo everyone
Looking for opinions, Looking to purchase a CNC Mill So far the choices of Interest.
Charter Oak, Tormach PCNC1100, Novakon torus Pro, Bolton Tool XQK9630S
as far as price Let's assume that they're all the same price.
to Me My first choice would be Tormach.. But the Y-axis travel gets in the way of that choice.
so we'll rule that one out for now the other 3, can anyone share any Knowledge on them ?
if you have one of the above can you share your experience and why you choose that particular one?
I have seen a charter oak close-up and yes the machine is a good size But.. some things I didn't like.
screw chip guards, coolant shields/guards, stand, they claim that their ways are ground, to be honest the one I saw it didn't seem that way to me?(I could be wrong on that)
I don't want to knock any of them I just want to be as well informed as possible when the time come to make a decision.
so Please thoughts..................thank you

Similar Threads:

• New Machine Build- Starting Charter Oaks Mill build #2
• Tormach PNC1100 or Charter oak Automation square column CNC Mill
• Charter Oaks / Industrial Hobbies Mill - No Longer Available
• IH / charter oak mill on a diet
• Charter Oak 12z mill inbound!

[awerby]

Do you think you could use a bigger font? I can't quite make it out without my glasses...

[new2cnc4]

sorry I'm trying to make it smaller haven't figured out how:-)

Done..

[bohica]

I can only speak of my experience with Charter Oak. Actually, I bought my machine and the CNC kit from Industrial Hobbies when Aaron owned it. After using it for several years, I am still impressed with the speed and accuracy of this mill. I just ran 9 identical parts yesterday. I just picked a place on each part and measured it. The maximum deviation from design was .0015, and I am in need of tramming and adjusting the entire mill. Earlier, after tramming the mill, I was getting .0004 average deviation.

Like you, I did a lot of research on mills before buying. The thing that attracted me to the IH mill was large working envelope, servo drive motors and the ability to use full flood coolant. I have no regrets on my purchase. At the time I bought it, it was the most bang for my buck.

In terms of technical support, I have called Charter Oak with support questions and they did not hesitate to help me.

[new2cnc4]

I can only speak of my experience with Charter Oak. Actually, I bought my machine and the CNC kit from Industrial Hobbies when Aaron owned it. After using it for several years, I am still impressed with the speed and accuracy of this mill. I just ran 9 identical parts yesterday. I just picked a place on each part and measured it. The maximum deviation from design was .0015, and I am in need of tramming and adjusting the entire mill. Earlier, after tramming the mill, I was getting .0004 average deviation.

Like you, I did a lot of research on mills before buying. The thing that attracted me to the IH mill was large working envelope, servo drive motors and the ability to use full flood coolant. I have no regrets on my purchase. At the time I bought it, it was the most bang for my buck.

In terms of technical support, I have called Charter Oak with support questions and they did not hesitate to help me.

Thanks for responding, can you share how have you dealt with chips not getting into the lead screws specially the Z axis?
Also you said you use the flood coolant, how do you keep it from spraying every where? And one more, can you confirm if your ways are ground like the site claims?
Than you for your patience...

[UniqueMachining]

Thanks for responding, can you share how have you dealt with chips not getting into the lead screws specially the Z axis?

While I am not familiar with Charter Oaks, the Z axis appears similar to the Torus Pro. A simple solution is to cut a piece of heavy plastic to size & stick it to the top with 2 magnets. Simple, cheap & effective.

Also you said you use the flood coolant, how do you keep it from spraying every where?

On my torus Pro I fabricated a frame from 1-1/4" PVC piping (48" high) and hung heavy clear plastic from shower hooks. For a door I fabricated an upside down U shape from 3" PVC, slotted to contain a 1/8" lexan sheet with a counter balanced weight. To open the door, simply touch it and it automatically raises. Pretty, not. Cheap & practical, definitely.

And one more, can you confirm if your ways are ground like the site claims?

Sorry no info on that.

PS. Had a look at their site and noticed a couple of potential issues.

Max RPM: 3800. Seems awfully low. (Torus Pro 6000, Tormach 5100)

6 Speed Gearbox: Unless the gearbox is controlled by programming (doubtful), that presents a major PITA. (Torus Pro No gearbox, Speed controlled by programming, Tormach 2 speed).

Drawbar Force: 600 lbs.: Seems awfully light compared to other machines using Quick Change Tooling. {Perhaps their system does not require higher clamping force} ?

Good luck with your search.

John

[new2cnc4]

Thanks John,
I looked at the Taurus, and I love the y axis travel, however the Z travel scares me, I did call novakon and they said that the 11" travel is more then enough because their spindle is 4" from table for a total of 15" what are your experiences with this??? How long have you had your Taurus, and do you love it? What about the company? Support ect..,
Steppers, or servos on yours?
Thank you
New2cnc4

[BuckingFastards]

Thanks John,
I looked at the Taurus, and I love the y axis travel, however the Z travel scares me, I did call novakon and they said that the 11" travel is more then enough because their spindle is 4" from table for a total of 15" what are your experiences with this??? How long have you had your Taurus, and do you love it? What about the company? Support ect..,
Steppers, or servos on yours?
Thank you
New2cnc4

I don't have a Novakon mill, but like you I'm in the market for purchasing a turn key mill. After comparing the specs I was going to go full steam ahead on purchasing a Novakon mill as from what I can see it is an absolutely wonderful piece of machinery. From the enclosure design to the wash down hose, the increased travels compared to any other turn key mill on the market it almost seems like a no brainer. The only thing that is stopping me from pulling the trigger on Novakon is that it uses Mach 3. I've read and dealt with some of the Mach 3 woes and it can become quite frustrating, especially if your ready for production instead of just hobby work.

For me despite the keen interest on Novakon, I've moved onto the possibility of acquiring a Tormach mill instead. Alot of that decision has to do with the introduction of Pathpilot. While I do know that other motion control software does exist (UCNC, Kflop) I worry about conflicts, reliability, and the programming and implementation of these alternative solutions.

Sorry if I'm making this decision even harder just feel it is important to bring to light this aspect.

[109jb]

6 Speed Gearbox: Unless the gearbox is controlled by programming (doubtful), that presents a major PITA. (Torus Pro No gearbox, Speed controlled by programming, Tormach 2 speed).

Drawbar Force: 600 lbs.: Seems awfully light compared to other machines using Quick Change Tooling. {Perhaps their system does not require higher clamping force} ?

You aren't comparing the correct machines. Charter Oak sells unconverted manual machines as well as full CNC machines. Their CNC maschine does not have a gearbox and has a 3 hp VFD controlled spindle 60-3800 RPM. The 6 speed gearbox is for the unconverted manual machine. You can also get a dual speed belt drive for the manual machine that takes RPM up to 5400 and eliminates the gearbox. Doesn't show as an option for the CNC mill, but I don't see why it couldn't be put on. I'd ask about that.

As for drawbar force, they are talking about a totally different tooling system and the 600 pounds is the retention by that tooling system. Comparing it to the TTS system is not an apples to apples comparison. Their system uses a full R8 shank retained by a pull stud type system, You don't need as much pull to retain that when compared to retaining a smooth shank in a collet like the TTS system. In short, comparing this to TTS is just not the same.

[new2cnc4]

You aren't comparing the correct machines. Charter Oak sells unconverted manual machines as well as full CNC machines. Their CNC maschine does not have a gearbox and has a 3 hp VFD controlled spindle 60-3800 RPM. The 6 speed gearbox is for the unconverted manual machine. You can also get a dual speed belt drive for the manual machine that takes RPM up to 5400 and eliminates the gearbox. Doesn't show as an option for the CNC mill, but I don't see why it couldn't be put on. I'd ask about that.

As for drawbar force, they are talking about a totally different tooling system and the 600 pounds is the retention by that tooling system. Comparing it to the TTS system is not an apples to apples comparison. Their system uses a full R8 shank retained by a pull stud type system, You don't need as much pull to retain that when compared to retaining a smooth shank in a collet like the TTS system. In short, comparing this to TTS is just not the same.

Also I just realized novakon uses linear rails on the Z axis
Is this a bad thing because of the large milling head they use? Does anyone know how the rails compare to the normal V-ways? Has any one seen or used both the charter oak and the novakon? Thoughts?
TIA

[UniqueMachining]

Mach 3 Issues

Prior to the smooth stepper and SSD I did experience some weird issues. However with ESS and SSD Mach is far better behaved.
The smooth stepper appears to eliminate any bottlenecks and combined with the SSD through put is more than adequate to satisfy any loads placed on it.

Draw Bar Force

Glad to hear I was misinformed.

Max Spindle RPM

My old NM-200 Series 2 had a 4500 RPM spindle motor. I thought that was quite adequate until I got the new Torus Pro at 6000 RPM.
The extra RPM permits faster and more aggressive cuts and better finishes. Also makes engraving or V-Carving far easier.

Z Travel

The only time I have had Z travel issues is when using extra long drill bits, have to be cautious not to lift to high, other wise no problem

Linear Rails

Linear rails are more expensive, accurate and do not require adjustments. Very smooth operation.

Stepper vs. Servo

My Torus Pro is a servo unit.
It permits up to 500 IPM. {I never use more than 200 IPM}.
Provides a feedback loop to ensure no lost steps. {No real issue at < 200 IPM}
Smooth & quite operation. {?}
Very powerful, beneficial for very aggressive milling.

John

[UniqueMachining]

Forgot to mention Path Pilot on a Novakon machine. The link below will take you to a post by BrianDoc, who is running Path pilot

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/novako...8-tormach.html

John