Build Thread jet's CNC kit installation - Page 4


Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 104

Thread: jet's CNC kit installation

  1. #61
    Registered
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    283
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RustedOut View Post
    When you checked the Z travel going down, you did have the quill all the way up didn't you?
    Bob
    yup.

    But I also had the magic invisible ballnut installed, the one that can clear the tie without my having to remove the tie. When I put on the not-so-magic, real ballnut and tried it again it banged into the tie so I cut it out. :-)



  2. #62
    Registered
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    283
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Z axis on, and now mounting the encoders and motors and I'm not happy. The X and Z mounts have a nice smooth shaft for the encoder wheel to sit on, but the Y axis is short and only has thread.

    Now I'm trying to figure out if:

    1) I assembled the Y wrong

    2) my Y ball screw is too short.

    Any suggestions on answering these without taking apart the Y?

    In happier news, my 3ph motor arrived today and the VFD will be here next week. Rigid tapping is on the horizon...



  3. #63
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    317
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jetflatline View Post
    yup.

    But I also had the magic invisible ballnut installed, the one that can clear the tie without my having to remove the tie. When I put on the not-so-magic, real ballnut and tried it again it banged into the tie so I cut it out. :-)
    Good to hear that as I couldn't see how it would not be in the way.

    On the encoders, did you get a spacer in the wrong place or have a gap in between the angular contact bearings? The X and Y ballscrews should look exactly alike on the threaded ends although there can be some tolerance. I can't think that having the spacers in wrong would do it though.

    Consider cutting those threads off the end of the ballscrew and plugging the hole in the encoder covers. You don't need those stupid little plastic handles hanging out there rotating all the time. They can be a hazard, catch your shirt on them or your kids fingers. Those wouldn't be allowed in a factory setting, they would need a cover. There is just no need for them. You have jog buttons and an MDI now, or will soon. I just used guerilla tape on the inside to cover the holes on my covers.

    One other suggestion, cut a flat to bed the little bitty set screw of the encoders on and use just a tiny bit of locktite on them. I had problems with mine until I made those improvements. I had to install longer set screws to make it work. Had to buy a hundred to get three, but luckily they didn't break the bank. Fixed a couple of problems I was seeing and really stabilized the motors. I had already installed small capacitors at the encoders as I thought I was fighting noise.

    One other thing, did you get a single or anti-backlash nut for the Z? If it's a single, don't snug up the gibs as tight on it as you do the X and Y. You want it to have gravity pull the head down so there's no back lash there. If you don't, you'll have the Rockford .0035" advertised backlash every time you move the head up or down. Took me a while to come to grips with that one as I was following the IH book on the install. Don't recall that being in the book.

    Bob



  4. #64
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    317
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jetflatline View Post
    In happier news, my 3ph motor arrived today and the VFD will be here next week. Rigid tapping is on the horizon...
    Not so sure I'd jump into the rigid tapping too fast. You really got to have excellent control of feeds and speeds. Might want to consider a tach on the spindle to verify the spindle rpm. Pretty sure I'm going with a tapping head in the near future. I've broken too many taps hand tapping to want a machine to break them for me. I do lots of tapping and the reversing tapping head just seems to be the ticket there.

    Bob



  5. #65
    Registered
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    283
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RustedOut View Post
    On the encoders, did you get a spacer in the wrong place or have a gap in between the angular contact bearings? The X and Y ballscrews should look exactly alike on the threaded ends although there can be some tolerance. I can't think that having the spacers in wrong would do it though.
    I'm pretty certain I did the X and the Y the exact same way, that's why I'm surprised the Y is so much shorter. I haven't actually put on the encoders yet, I thought I'd do some research before I made things worse.


    Consider cutting those threads off the end of the ballscrew and plugging the hole in the encoder covers. You don't need those stupid little plastic handles hanging out there rotating all the time.
    Is that what the three plastic knobs in the kit are for? To cover the ends of the screws? I was going to grind them off after the install was complete.

    One other thing, did you get a single or anti-backlash nut for the Z?
    Single, and I was wondering about the amount of backlash. I guess letting gravity take care of that isn't the end of the world.



  6. #66
    Registered
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    283
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    One other thing, the threads in the Z mount that IH cut were completely fubar on one side of the mount, and it was unfortunately on the side with the ballscrew. After drilling/tapping for a set screw, I ran a tap through from the other side and spent the last 1/4 of the cut cutting new threads. I have no idea what they used to cut the threads, but it wasn't a tap that went all the way through, that's for sure.



  7. #67
    Registered saabman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    77
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    The knobs are for manually backing the table/saddle off the limit switches. I think this was to give you a way to escape from a catch22 in Mach (at least for the less savy PC user) where the limit trip keeps you from jogging off the limit.



  8. #68
    Registered
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    283
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    After realizing I didn't receive X and Z spacers, and that both of those screws are the right length, I got to wondering about the Y.

    This week I will take photos so I can get a second opinion, but it looks like the threading on the Y axis ball screw does not take into account the size of the Y-axis spacer. If I subtract the length of the spacer from the screw, it looks like I have plenty of shaft to use for the encoder.



  9. #69
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    317
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jetflatline View Post
    One other thing, the threads in the Z mount that IH cut were completely fubar on one side of the mount, and it was unfortunately on the side with the ballscrew. After drilling/tapping for a set screw, I ran a tap through from the other side and spent the last 1/4 of the cut cutting new threads. I have no idea what they used to cut the threads, but it wasn't a tap that went all the way through, that's for sure.
    I had the same problem with mine. Had to tap the mounts for X and Y as the threads were not deep enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by saabman View Post
    The knobs are for manually backing the table/saddle off the limit switches. I think this was to give you a way to escape from a catch22 in Mach (at least for the less savy PC user) where the limit trip keeps you from jogging off the limit.
    Funny, I'm not a PC person and I didn't have any problem moving off the switches. Before I was comfortable with Mach3, I would merely turn them off to jog off of them. And that was only a time or two as really you shouldn't be hitting them anyway. Mine was done during initial testing of the switches. I guess I could see the use as you say if it needed done every few minutes.

    There's a better way and it's in one of two places in Mach. Here's a link to one discussion on it.
    Quote Originally Posted by jetflatline View Post
    This week I will take photos so I can get a second opinion, but it looks like the threading on the Y axis ball screw does not take into account the size of the Y-axis spacer. If I subtract the length of the spacer from the screw, it looks like I have plenty of shaft to use for the encoder.
    The ballscrew should just go right through the solid shim/spacer. Shoulder of the ballscrew should nest to the tubing spacer right behind the bearings, the other tubing spacer on the near side of the bearings, then the bearing clamp which the second tubing spacer goes through, then the pulley tight up against the spacer. So it's spacer, bearings, spacer, pulley. Nothing else.

    Bob



  10. #70
    Registered saabman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    77
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Bob, I did not mean to imply I was not a savy PC user (I was parotting IH, as I had a discussion with them about the need for the shaft to come through the back cover). I am in fact a software engineer.

    I am in fact thinking of making new encoder covers that do not have a hole in them (and cutting the shaft). With some sealant around the edges this will make the very coolant tight.



  11. #71
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    317
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Sorry you took it that way, I'm wasn't insinuating that. But I am PC stupid. My main computer is a Mac. I have PC's for the mill and another for CAD/CAM. Had to get a friend over to install Windows 7 on my wife's laptop. It was stressing me out just thinking about it. I can run software, but wouldn't want to write it.

    I think IH should have just informed their buying public of the way to do that in Mach instead of building in something that can cause harm like they did. I run my mill a lot of times leaning up against the Y motor mount. Can't imagine doing that with those silly knobs rotating all the time. I haven't gotten to the coolant stage yet, so I hand spray, hence the need to be close.

    If IH had built them in such a way that they didn't rotate all the time, only engage them when you need them, then they would be useful to a point I suppose. As is, they're a potential accident. If I can keep someone from being hurt by them, I've done my part.

    I have a model without the holes, but have pretty much decided to re-invent the whole motor mount plates to turn the X and Y motors the other way, pointing into the machine. I have the material and the models started, just not the time right now. While I'm at it, I'll get rid of the plastic belt covers as well. Probably a next winter time project.

    Bob



  12. #72
    Registered
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    283
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Ok, I think I assembled something wrong on the Y or got the wrong parts, not sure which. There's barely enough thread sticking out for the Y pulley to thread on, but I figured that was just dumb luck until I saw how much extra thread there was on Z. I'll take the Y apart soon, I have access to the bottom of the mill so if it's really bad I can still unbolt things without taking all the tables off again.



  13. #73
    Registered
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    283
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Made some serious progress today, only to hit a wall thanks to missing parts in the kit. No endstop slides or stop blocks. Email sent to IH, but I'm guessing I'll end up having to make my own. #(*&$#@(*&$(#@*&

    The Y axis mystery has been solved. It looks like the preload on the angular bearings was set too high, this prevented it from sliding far enough back on the screw. I took it all apart and ran the screw really far forward and the bracket just kept getting hung up. Suspecting dirt/crap in the housing, I ran my finger inside and there was the tiniest ridge, but it was enough to stop things from moving. I loosened everything up, bolted it all back together, and "Hey, Presto!" it worked.

    So, finally some serious progress.

    (if you know how to embed flickr photos on cnczone can you pm me? I write code for a living and still can't figure it out. :-)

    Last edited by jetflatline; 04-10-2011 at 09:46 AM.


  14. #74
    Registered saabman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    77
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    The table end stops are the T-slot thumscrews that came with the manual mill. I have fabbed my own because I mounted a dro scale on the front edge of the table.



  15. #75
    Registered
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    283
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    That's what I figured for the X, but for the Y and the Z?



  16. #76
    Registered saabman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    77
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    The limit switch for X has two nubs the the table screws contact. For Y and Z, the limit switch (fixed mount) should have a 1/4 inch bar with locking collars and another "box" moving mount. There should be pictures in your install doc that show how Y and Z limits are affixed to the mill.



  17. #77
    Registered
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    283
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Yup. Saw them in the photos, no sign of them in the box o stuff. Should not be too hard to make them once I have the mill back together.



  18. #78
    Registered
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    283
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Motors, encoders, and the like are all wired up and ready to go, stand and base are now in their permanent position and leveled. All I need to do now is get the column back on the base, put the head back together, install the new motor and wire everything up.

    I am so glad I decided to assemble the column on the ground instead of trying to drill, tap, and bolt everything on with only a foot or so of headroom.



  19. #79
    Registered
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    794
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Jet, Just a not on what to expect for rigid tapping, per true rigid tapping requirements. It will be necessary to have the spindle drive set-up as per a true servo in some manor. It must be in synchronous movement at all times with spindle rev's. It must still feed even as the spindle is decelerating to a stop and then start feeding again as soon as the spindle starts turning in the opposite direction, and AT ALL TIMES be fully synchronized or it is put into an immediate bind and something breaks.
    Also, I don't think it is yet implemented into mach at this time, maybe next upcoming major version.
    That is why most of us are using the self reversing tapping head where the only real requirement is to feed at the rate of the tap going in and if the tap head has a compound retract speed up then match that feeding out of hole.
    I would like to be able to rigid tap but the expense alone of incorporating it into machine is high and my budget is low plus the deal with implementation with mach ...........the encoder arrangement so the spindle rpm is updated many more times than once per revolution and kept in time with feed is the problem at this time. My spindle takes several seconds to accel and decel and must be dealt with accordingly. The high dollar machines that do true rigid tapping use a very expensive servo motor system to make it all happen correctly.

    Don
    IH v-3 early model owner


  20. #80
    Registered
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    283
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    You know, I was wondering about that and just thought there was some sort of magic that happened in the controller to keep it all in sync. Now I'm wondering if I can do it on my little, experimental 3d rig that uses steppers on all axis... That probject will have to wait.

    It's not the end of the world if I can't do rigid tapping, I just thought it'd be icing on the cake. I mainly wanted the VFD for easy control of higher speeds (plastic and aluminum) and better on/off control from emc/mach.



Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


About CNCzone.com

    We are the largest and most active discussion forum for manufacturing industry. The site is 100% free to join and use, so join today!

Follow us on


Our Brands

jet's CNC kit installation

jet's CNC kit installation