waterjet question

[hutch82]

hi there fellow members hows it going? I work in a shop in southwestern ontario and run a CNC plasma table. I have been thinking alot lately about trying to start up a shop of my own. I was thinking about more along the lines of a waterjet because of all of the different things that can be and the clean cut you can get. I know they are more money but there doesn't seem to be many in the area at all would this be a good investment or should I re-think this??????
please give me your input
thanks alot
jon hutch

[jimcolt]

Abrasive water jets have their niche markets where they can outperform plasma or laser systems....just as laser and plasma can outperform waterjets in some areas.

In a nutshell:

Abrasive water jet....cuts many different types of material...metals, stone, plastics, wood.....and many others.

For soft materials...straight water can be used....speeds are fast and operating cost is reasonable. Ford hard materials...such as most metals...abrasive in the form of garnet is used....this adds cost.....and the cutting speeds are quite slow.

Cut quality is very good....with no HAZ (heat affected zone)...accuracies in the .010" to .015: range on metals.

Plasma....Plasma is the productivity process...it is extremely fast on steel.

Plasma can only cut electrically conductive materials.

Plasma is fast, with low operating cost.....and accuracies in the .020" to .030" range.

Laser Laser is most comonly used on metals under 3/8" thickness.

Laser equipment has a high capital equipment cost with high operating cost....yet can be very productive and accurate on thin materials...accuracy as good as .005"


So, there may well be a market for water jet cutting in your area....but none of the cutting processes are the best at everything they do! If you cater to cutting parts for metal fabrication.... then the accuracy of the parts you produce combined with how much you charge will determine who will buy your product. With Plasma you will have high volume production with low pricess and lower accuracy......Laser will have high tolerances on thinner materials with medium cutting costs....and water jet will have good accuracy with no heat affected zone....with very high cutting costs.....yet will cut more materials.

Jim Colt

[One of Many]

The cost per hour just to support the machine and an operator is much better absorbed in an established shop. Considering the primary burden of the overhead in an empty facility, I'd question it being a single cost center as the only source of income. Most jets I have seen installed are support for an in-house product line or secondary service offered in a full service shop.

I'm not discouraging your plan. Sure, you can buy one and provide the service. Getting a single jet to pay both your keep, might not be so easy. You still need to find the work, quote it and keep it running to maintain 200hrs per month nozzle time.

DC

[hutch82]

hey guys thanks alot for the imput. I agrree each machine does have its pros and cons thats for sure. I just think the waterjet you can get invovled in alot more markets or industries where a plasma table you are very limited in what you can do as far as what material you cut.

-as far as the cost of the water jet how much is the abrasive?????
then on top of that you would have mater and hydro thats it correct plus the normal business expenses??????
thanks let me know

[One of Many]

hey guys thanks alot for the imput. I agrree each machine does have its pros and cons thats for sure. I just think the waterjet you can get invovled in alot more markets or industries where a plasma table you are very limited in what you can do as far as what material you cut.

-as far as the cost of the water jet how much is the abrasive?????
then on top of that you would have mater and hydro thats it correct plus the normal business expenses??????
thanks let me know

No that isn't it by a long ways . The garnet sand is the cheap supplies. You have consumables like carbide nozzles, jewels and SS high pressure lines, seals, fittings, regulators and pump rebuilds that can run the annual operating cost of around $35-45/hr alone. The harder and or thicker the material, the slower it cuts and there for the higher per inch cost of cutting. I've heard some brochures state under $20/hr operating cost, but that must be during the warranty period. With a $65/hr shop rate, you can see where there is a shortfall when it comes to covering all the misc. business expenses of owning 1 waterjet to hang the burdens on.

DC

[hutch82]

well this is good this all part of my research before I go jumping into something i didn't research. What are some good names of water jets a good quality machine? What are the price ranges I called for a bunch of catalogs today but no one advertices prices at all?
thanks alot for the help here i wanna know all the pros in cons before i get my self into trouble or at least make a better choice thats all I know there are big pros and cons for every machine thats for sure
let me know
jon hutch

[DareBee]

Machine prices are 150K +.
Don't forget waste disposal and material handling as part of your operating cost as well.
That garnet has to go somewhere when used up and you aren't going to lift a 4'x4'x8" thick chunk of granite into the machine without a forklift.

[Dr Pete]

Price can be negotiable, sometimes!
I looked into buying a wj machine a few months back.
One very important point no one mentioned, wj can't cut a blind hole!
Well restated, not with any depth accuracy.

We machine glass and not everything gets cut all the way through so that nixed the idea to add the wf machine.

Found a nice used Okuma in a local shop they had laying around I could have picked up for ~$35K but even at that low price I had to pass just because I don't need a machine to do secondary operations on.

So, make sure you have the right kind of work for the machine also.

Good luck.

[hutch82]

hey this is awesome thanks guys this helps alot with my research glad i posted something first. please keep your thoughts coming or knowledge
jon hutch

[hutch82]

well I have been making calls and emails all week to different business I know researching what to get I am still leaning towards the waterjet. My area is just saturated with plasma tables and a few well know companies with lasers but no waterjets. I just think you could get invovled with so many more types of work with the waterjet. I know its slower its just your options are so limited with plasma just makes me worry if it would be hard to stay competitve with plasma when buddy down the street has one too



thoughts????
LET ME KNOW PLEASE
Jon Hutch

[hutch82]

just for furthur research where is a good place to look at buying a waterjet machine what are the good companies and what are the ones i should avoid? Any good place in the ontario canada area????? southern ontario prefered? any places that sell used machine thanks alot let me know please thanks guys
hutch

[jimcolt]

If you google search "waterjet" you will find many pages steering you towards water jet equipment suppliers. If you want to see water jet cutting systems in action in your area...call the manufacturers...they can steer you toward installatios of their product in your area.

Try this site as they seem to have quite a bit of info: www.waterjets.org

Here are a couple of manufacturers: www.omax.com www.flowcorp.com www.romeoeng.com www.calypsowaterjet.com

Jim