Anybody order a lathe from Grizzly?

[ninefinger]

Just wondering if anybody in Ontario has ordered a lathe from Grizzly in the USA, now that they ship to Canada.

Looking at their website I'm considering the G4003G 12x36" lathe for $3200. Looking at it its nearly the same lathe as the Busy Bee Craftex CT043N that is on sale for $3500 but the grizzly has a more features / extras for the same price almost (after figuring $300 shipping). ie includes the quick change tool post, live center, roller follow rest and steady rest, larger spindle bore, 3 jaw chuck with 2 piece jaws, etc

Any other sources for a lathe like this in Ontario with a competitive price? KBC tools (King lathe) is $3700 with out the above mentioned goodies...

Thanks,

Mike

[jeffrey001]

Buy Craftex Gear Head Lathe - Bench Lathes - Metal Bench Lathes - CT043N from Busy Bee Tools


In Ontario,


Busy Bee Tools Store Locations In Canada - Find A Tool Store Near You


Hope this help


Jeff



Also in Canada, Nova Scotia, from Ebay.ca, couple hundreds shipping.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/King-Canada-T...item5d2c8fd0bf

[ninefinger]

Hi Jeffery,

Thanks, I have looked at the Busy Bee products in person - I am looking for a Canadians experience with ordering from Grizzly (ie ease of ordering, delivery time, freight cost, warranty service if applicable, etc)
OR
a better price than Busy Bee and or KBC etc. Busy Bee are local to me but the price difference is too much compared to what Grizzly has on offer.

The King lathe includes the QC tool post versus the BB CT043N lathe that does not but the BB lathe has a fully enclosed gear box. As this is a hobby machine to me the fully enclosed gearbox does not matter as much I don't believe (may go CNC one day anyway).

The americans have far better choices and pricing than we do up here - ie Grizzly, Precision Matthews, Harbor Freight, Bolton Hardware to name a few. Just doing the most shopping around I can before I buy...

Mike

[bdrmachine]

I'm not from Canada but I will share my experience with the lathe I purchased from them 15 years ago. Right from the start I has problems. A large amount of sand was floating around in the main gear box. I guess this was from the casting operation. This caused main bearing problems. I had to ship it back. They cleaned and repaired it at only the cost of shipping to them. Some years later I changed the oil in the saddle gear case. I also found a lot of sand. The cleaning of this one was on me. The point to take from this post is: Check the machine out closely.

I hope this helps
Brian

[jeffrey001]

Originally Posted by ninefinger Hi Jeffery, The americans have far better choices and pricing than we do up here Mike

I know, I'm used to be ripped off when buying in Canada.

I'm a long time buyer on EBay.

You buy something cheap in China, cost = $20.00 and free shipping
I buy in US, the same cheap item, cost = $45.00 and $40.00 shipping when real shipping is $15.00

Buy the same item in Canada, cost = $65.00 and $25.00 shipping when real cost is $10.00.

After that , we ask why our economy is so bad.


Jeff

[cyclestart]

No personal experience but here's a link;
Grizzly tools, how much to drag across the border

Excise tax applies to goods not manufactured in USA but whether that tax will be collected can be hit-and-miss. UPS sends up red flags for me but maybe others have had more positive experiences.

[ninefinger]

I know about your feelings with UPS - I have sworn to not deal with them unless absolutely necessary, especially on foreign small value orders - been burned before paying brokerage fees etc totaling more than the item I bought.

In this case Grizzly are up front and tell you the brokerage fee ($51.75 for orders between $1600.01 and $5000) plus they have a promo to reimburse that fee to you so that part I'm ok with for now.

So far Grizzly is beating Busy Bee as I can get the G4003G delivered to my door for the same as the Busy Bee model undelivered...plus the benefits of the Grizzly model (mostly the "better" 3 jaw chuck), but I am leaning toward the 4003 or 4002 as I'm not sure I need the "features" of the gunsmith model or the 36" between centers and I can save $500 going to the shorter 4002 (~$2960 before tax, including shipping after converting US-CDN $'s).

The one flag I did pick up from your woodworking thread is the UL or CSA marking or lack there of. I guess its important if going into a commercial shop - for home use I think I can take my chances and check it out completely - I have a good understanding of what is involved in an ETL inspection.

Mike

[cyclestart]

Originally Posted by cyclestart Excise tax applies to goods not manufactured in USA

Ooops.
"Excise tax" should have been "duty". Machine tools aren't cigarettes although both can be addictive.

According to advice I was given, duty on a Oriental lathe should be avoidable
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/475841-post12.html
.....but has Grizzly done their homework ? Wouldn't hurt to ask.

[ninefinger]

I downloaded the HS tariff codes from here:
http://www.cbsa.gc.ca/trade-commerce...4-2012-eng.pdf

In there do a search for lathe and you can come up with pretty much any description of a lathe and its duty free ie 8458.19.00

So I might prompt Grizzly to mark the shipment with that HS code just to be safe.

BTW my initial search came up with older PDF's from 2008 and 2009 where there was a 6% duty on some lathes (far more choices and descriptions) and its was far more difficult to pick the right classification - who knew government could get simpler and cost me less at the same time?

Mike

[meh725]

1) I found their service and desire to please excellent.

2) When I heard they ship UPS exclusively I almost freaked because I've had nothing by grief from that company. There brokerage charges are outrageous and not made up any where near their total by Grizzly's rebate.

3) Last week I paid almost $90 for a $120 item and they will not tell me how they come up with that amount. It was a medical necessity so had no choice but to pay it - otherwise I would have sent it back.

4) They delivered on time but the person here didn't have enough cash to pay them at the door so I called to have it held and not redelivered and they said it would be ready for pick-up the next day. So I went and it was out on the truck and of course they came while I was out trying to pick it up. SAME thing next day, so I just waited till all the delivery attempts were used up and then just picked it up no problem.

5) So once bitten twice shy, I called and had Grizzly ship it to Niagara Falls to be held no charge for 5 days. The shipping is 25$ less in USA than to Canada, which is about the cost of gas for the trip and in this nice weather who's complaining about the drive, so I expect to go in the next couple of days, and no crazy brokerage fees. BTW I received a similar parcel recently from DHL and the brokerage was $26 which is exactly what Grizzly will rebate you $25.90 for that value of purchase.

6) Of course they have a real sophisticated operation there - the pick-up office is open something like five hours a day for about three days a week - I kid you not, they don't open till 1 and close at 5. If I wasn't retired I wouldn't have the time to chase this down and I'd probably have to give it up.

7) I'm curious to see what kind of experience I'll have when I pick it up.

8) I don't know if you need one to get the deal, but I have a Nexus card so I just fill in the slip and toss it in the box when I cross back, and they bill my credit card for 5% duty of the amount over the exemption (none for a one day trip) and no GST.

9) I hope you have a better experience if you're forced to take the UPS deal..

10) Grizzly 9+/10. They really bent over backwards to help me through all these problems I was having with UPS.

11) UPS -9/10.

12) P.S. I asked my local Busy Bee store to bring it up for me (they don't have a Craftex model for this machine) and they said no problem, they'll call me with a quote, but when they called it was to tell me that the Manager who okayed it was overruled by the owner Mr. B. who in case anybody doesn't know is the brother of Grizzly's owner.

[ninefinger]

I agree with your cautiousness regarding dealing with UPS - they screwed me also in the past and I won't use them for international shipments. I ended up ordering my lathe from somewhere else for other reasons and I'm still waiting on receiving it.

Personally I was ready to order from Grizzly then the lathe(s) I was interested in went on backorder (G4003/ G4003G). I've read lots of stories on Grizzly backorders so thought if I'm going to wait I'd order what I really want which was the lathe from Precision Matthews PM-1236 from these guys PM 1236 Metal Working Lathe with the preferred equipment package.
(i.e. foot brake and coolant pump were the selling points to me)

I did look at the Grizzly shipping page for Canada here: Grizzly.com® -- Questions and Answers
It seemed clear enough on what the brokerage charges would be. I thought that if they turned out different I'd start a war on Grizzly if they didn't cover the difference.

Anyway -attached is a spreadsheet I made up while shopping for a 12x36" lathe - maybe it will be of use to someone else.

Mike

[ptxman]

I'm from Calgary & feel your pain when it comes accessing goodies from the USA. I bring in hobby stuff & you're right, generally avoid couriers if there is another way. From what I know, that leaves you/them to arrange some sort of freight/brokerage company to handle your purchase.

But if a USA seller is somehow underwriting the cost of shipping via UPS (maybe because they have a large scale contract with them) & the all-in cost are comparable vs any other alternative, then consider it. Even if you organized your own transport & cleared it yourself, you have to pay applicable duty, GST, PST etc, so one has to compare apples & apples. A friend of mine did exactly that, he bought a used (USA iron) lathe on ebay in the US, drove his truck down & brought it home. Thats not often practical but I recall he said it was cheaper than any of the freight/broker outfits he was quoted. I buy my bookd from amazon .com (not .ca). I dont know how they do it but the shipping is reasonable. If I had to send the same package back it would cost me more via CanPost or UPS for that matter.

Back to lathes. I wish I could find the post, but a guy on a forum who I think was in the selling business, said the vast majority of Chinese hobby lathes in the 12-14" range landed in N-Am generally come from the same suite of Chinese companies. They may be differently [painted, labelled, accessorized & even priced]. And of those, there are Monday vs Friday versions. Some re-sellers endeavour check them over carefully before allowing to customers, others pass them on as is. And some biigger US sellers like Enco & Grizzly offer machine versions you dont see here (mills in particular).

I bought my (Taiwanese King) lathe & RF-45 mill from Modern Tool, late 90's. So far so good. I went back there recently browsing around. Unfortunately, no more King, they also switched to Chinese lathes 'overseen/upgraded to their specs', CSA motor & electricals etc. Looked better than a Busy Bee but not as nice as the King & the sales guy confirmed it honestly. Unfortunately it t was the tactile stuff, the dials & leadscrews sucked.

The big issue is a lathe or mill is a big hunk of iron. If you have any problems that needs attention, physically moving it & re-crating is not only an effort but all the same cross border shipping headaches again. What I learned is the tooling cost can pale the cost of the machine. If you are going to buy Chinese, may as well get the yellow one at home. You can physically see & touch & hopfully have some recourse with the seller. Or (my vote) check out King, it's in your neighborhood, assuming they still are dialed into the Taiwanese machines.