Are fellow Canadians as industrious and technical as others?

[autobot]

Are fellow Canadians as industrious and have as much interests in technical skills and engineering as people or cultures from other countries?

For example, is it more common for our friendly American neighbors to own full fledged home shops at their residence than Canadian homes? Are as many Canadians interested in technical and scientific subjects as other cultures/countries? I read recently on the CBC there are trends showing declining interests in one of the national high school robotics competition. Meanwhile there are robotics, programming, etc competitions of all sorts in the States and elsewhere growing the next generation of engineers and scientists that will bring positive change to the world.

It seems other countries have always been more industrious. How often do you hear people build some invention, contraption or robot from their homeshop in Canada? You hear it about the States all the time or people starting companies and inventing things in their backyard. The question is why isnt, or is Canada as industrious? Do most Canadians have the same sort of interests in technical subjects? I think a technical society with strong foundations in science and engineering is important and brings real positive impact to the world as well as to the reputation of the country. Outside of North America, look at how industrious the Germans and Japanese are. You may not like their history or are not familiar with their culture, but you respect them for how industrious they are and you put faith in the products made by companies from those countries. Their tech companies are often no-nonsense and make really top notch scientific/engineering equipment.

Well, I know most city folks living in apartments and working at banks or financial institutions for example, definately tend to have no interests in technical subjects as their background is probably in commerce or economics anyway. So the same can be said about a lack of interests in technical subjects for most downtown Torontorians as downtown New Yorkers. But is the perception true though that Canadians seem to lack interests in technical subjects?

[danhamm]

Necessity is the Mother of invention, I don't think Borders mean much in the scheme of things.

[Geof]

Have you ever heard of the Blackberry, or heard of Creo, or MDA, or QLT, or Bombardier? Canadians are not necessarily lacking in innovativeness or industriousness but often lacking in opportunity. It is difficult to start a home shop and have it grow without export sales. the Canadian domestic market is too small. And the problem with developing export sales is that unless you have a niche product it is difficult to compete with the local shops in the country you are exporting to. I know because I have done it and have a (small) company that exports all over the world from lower mainland B.C. It is in a niche market and I have few competitors. I am not unique, there are a couple of companies I know about here in B.C. One designs and exports machinery used in the baking industry the other specializes in conveyor systems. There are probably others here and in other parts of Canada.

[DareBee]

Yes
I don't know what has brought on your post but I believe you are sadly mistaken as well.
If I remember correctly Canada has more annual innovations per capita than our southern neighbors and a long list of huge break-throughs.

How hard we work compared to other cultures? More than some, less than others.

[Dan B]

But is the perception true though that Canadians seem to lack interests in technical subjects?

No, it's not. However, with 1/10 the population of the US, it may seem so. But as Geof mentioned, our innovations have been noteworthy.

Dan

[autobot]

Certainly, that is not to say there hasnt been any innovations or successful startups here. Of course we know of examples such as Blackberry, which is perhaps currently the most internationally known Canadian multinational company. I honestly cant think of what other big Canadian based tech firm which is truly well known outside of Canada other than Blackberry. The others you mentioned, yes even Bombardier, are not very well known outside of Canada unless the person has strong insights into a particular industry in question.

It just doesnt seem there are as much entrepreneurship and innovations being generated here compared to other countries. Would you be able to cite your source regarding the innovation per capita you mentioned, and also what this measure is based on anyway.

Meanwhile in the case of Japan, every layman knows of Mori Seiki (well ok machinists do, this is CNCzone so), Sony, Toyota, Honda, Mitsubishi, Panasonic, etc. For Germany, you know Hermle (for machinist), Mercedes Benz, BMW, Audi, Volkswagen, etc. For the US, Haas Automation (for machinists), Dell, HP, IBM, Microsoft, etc etc etc etc, quite plentiful Im sure this list needs no mentioning. And Canada, I would say Blackberry is the only one I can point to. In fact I have even talked to non Canadians in the past who knew about Blackberry but didnt know Blackberry was actually a Canadian firm and was surprised to learn this fact when I informed them, which shows the kind of perception from the outside in terms of Canadian innovation.

Most of the bigger and thriving (non-government) Canadian startups are often in the services industry because they are serving the domestic market, such as all the major banks here, TD, RBC, etc or the farming industry, or the major telecoms like Bell or Rogers. There really hasnt been many successful technology innovators/startups here other than Blackberry and Bombardier, let alone successful companies with international market penetration. There have been a few niche market Canadian startups that were on their way to doing well that were later absorbed by larger multinationals like VoodooPC by HP, etc. However, on the technology front, I cant really name too many well know top contenders. In retrospect, most households know popular Japanese, American, and German companies.

[Geof]

Your view is too narrow and it seems you did not know about Creo, MDA or QLT. Basing opinions on lack of knowledge is hardly valid. Also it was pointed out that there is a big population difference. Canada has 30 million, the US roughly 300, Japan 120 and Germany about 80. Also Canada has a history of being a resource country not a manufacturer of consumer products. Canadian innovations in lumber harvesting and sawmilling have been adopted by other countries, and expanded upon. Parallam was developed in Canada (if you don't know what Parallam is Google it). And what about the Canadarm on the Space Shuttle/Space Station? Or the linear motor transit system in Vancouver and also installed in Singapore (I think, or Malaysia). Not cost effective but innovative. I suspect you have been developing your opinions based on what you see in the media which seems to have a collective inferiority complex about all things Canadian.

[autobot]

You mentioned I did not seem to know Creo, MDA or QLT as an example. Actually you are right. I am not familiar with them. Im still not familiar with them, in particular MDA and QLT. I cant even get very decent first page Google search result answer. The question is, should I be? More importantly, why am I not aware of them when I am aware of foreign companies like Panasonic and Hitachi. Ok, so QLT is a pharmaceutical company. I never knew this, but I know about Merck, Bayer, etc.

The deeper question that needs to be answered is, is it the fault of myself or others like me who did not know these companies, or were these companies simply not as big as you seem to think they are on the world stage? I would hazard to guess most Canadians know the name Merck over QLT. Are they ignorant because they didnt know, yes. But nobody knows everything. The more fundamental reason is simple, other companies like Panasonic are simply more successful also.

Its not so much an inferiority complex portrayed by the media or absorbed from the media. I think the most important trait to have in moving forward constructively in any subject or field, is to be dead honest with yourself and not sugarcoat or be grandiose about the subject and to rid yourself of bias. Only when you can see the reality for what it is, can you start to identify the problems, and from those problems enact positive change. Positive change is the ultimate goal here. Some people refuse this method of enacting positive change because they dont feel comfortable with criticism or dislikes negativity. We all want the best outcome, but some seem to want the best outcome while looking only at the bright side, while being blinded by some form of bias, while others also want positive outcome but choose to be self critical. Its good to look at the glass half full, but its also important to be able to look at the glass as half empty. Either way you cut it, using this metaphor, we all want the glass to be full, but water is really only half way filled in the glass either way you cut it.

Steve Jobs was a perfectionist. He is really critical of the prototypes developed at Apple. Im sure the designers and engineers who were ever yelled at by him to redo something must have thought hes way over the top, but its not always the case. Hes perfectionistic and critical, because he wants and expects the best. Having a Kumbaya about your good points while not addressing your weakness is often just lying to yourself. On the other hand, you can be honest with yourself and identify the reasons behind your weakness, and from that eliminate or change those weakness to improve yourself also.

So back onto the topic of Canadian tech companies. I interact with non-Canadians a lot. My understanding is there really isnt any perception of Canada as being very industrious compared to other countries. The reality is the facts show too. There really isnt that many Canadian startups that are major players in markets in the world stage. Again, I can name Blackberry. Can you name any more big Canadian tech firms that are doing well internationally in the consumer market or otherwise? It goes back to the ultimate goal here that we all want to see, and that is to encourage entrepreneurship in Canada to drive up innovation.

[frankee]

I'm going on 23 years of running my own, small, engineering and electronic manufacturing business.

In my opinion, one of the limitations in Canada is the risk-adverse banking system, the same system that did so well during the last crunch. If I were a unionized assembly line worker at Ford, or a clerk in some government agency, I could show up at the bank and ask for a 50K loan to buy a Lexus, and the bank would probably pee themselves in delight to hand me the money. On the other hand, if I had developed a new product, and I needed 50K to expand my business to take it to market, or to pay for testing and certification, the banks would make me jump through so many hoops, and make me feel so worthless, that I just wouldn't bother. Success breeds success, and since our small business are stymied by the banks, young people looking for careers wouldn't see the sense in trying anything industrious in Canada. I'm not saying this is the only issue, but I feel it is a contributing factor.

[Geof]

Okay I will try to make this my last contribution to this thread because I can see my side cannot win. You have changed your frame of reference; your first post has this;

Are fellow Canadians as industrious and have as much interests in technical skills and engineering as people or cultures from other countries?

Your most recent post has this;

Can you name any more big Canadian tech firms that are doing well internationally in the consumer market or otherwise

The two are not synonymous.

[autobot]

Youre right they are not synonymous. It was one discussion leading to another. Plus, you were the one who brought up examples of successful Canadian companies in post 3. No, you werent bringing them up by saying they are big players but that there is no non-existance of innovation here. I am not disagreeing but I am point out that there are plenty more of similar small business startups everywhere in the world, and of the other highly industrious nations like the US, Germany and Japan, there were quite a few more of those sorts that ultimately became highly successful in the world stage.

Of course business success isnt just about how technical the people are, its about the social construct as a whole also. For example, Canada has high taxes, lack of domestic angel/venture capital investors, strong regulation, etc which seems to deviate more away from a 'capitalist' thriving society and culture unlike in the US. But countries like Germany and Japan also have different degrees of these points, so the picture is certainly not at all that simple.

But the two points you quoted are related in cause and effect in some way too. A highly technical and industrious society will also spur lots of innovation that can increase the odds of a successful innovator in becoming a strong multinational with good international market penetration. I will end at that also.

[danhamm]

WE are resource driven , In this we are heads above other industrialized countries.
In lumber, Oil and Gas, Mining..the tech we have most can't compete, this we sell, we have smaller companies such as Tolko, Westfraser, Canfor,
smaller again in wood industry, Pioneer Log Homes, Tech companies Startrach.
StarTrack
We did have Nortel, but it got to big and vulnerable, it had patents, more than any other in the communications world.
At present, listen to the crying, No Jobs no work, down across the border,
Italy broke, needing bailouts, others in the EU. not so good, Us here not so bad.

SO your first posts were related to Machinery manufacturers, we are not doing to bad, if you want to buy Canadian you do have to look, but they are there, usually smaller, but very good .. have you heard of Precix, or humming bird, the heli co. any more and I will have to leave my area ...lol..