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Unfortunately manufacturing is not in the future of North America, and is pretty much over , it will ony get harder, and more costly to find new skilled workers, it really is sad
But the upside is, I can buy a toaster at walmart for $12
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Is it just me or is it getting more and more difficult to find junior workers with skill and ambition. In the past three years I have gone through 4 different toolmaker apprentices at different stages in their training and 2 guys just out of school looking to become apprentices. In order to be a good machinist or toolmaker there has to be a level of intelligence and ambition that these individuals all seemed to lack. There have been a lot of plant closures in our area where a lot of unskilled assembly workers were laid off to the point where there were government agencies set up to help these people find new careers. In most cases the human resource “professionals” that worked for these agencies encouraged the unskilled and laid off workers to get in to skilled trades. Our local colleges set up new courses to accommodate these people for retraining in the skilled trades with many of them intending to become machinists and toolmakers. There was a flood of new blood in our trade and I was receiving dozens of resumes a month from the graduates of these new programs looking for work. The problem is none of the individuals were any good, I tried a few that interviewed well and had decent resumes but one almost got himself killed, no injury occurred thank god, but none the less a scary moment because of a stupid mistake in judgment resulting in his dismissal. The other person I hired quit after 4 days because “this job isn’t what I expected”, he obviously didn’t like the fact that he actually had to work.
There are obvious problems in our area with the skilled trades and I feel it is a societal issue, no one wants their kids to do trade work as it has developed a stigma of being for people of lesser intelligence. I look back at when I first decided to do an apprenticeship, I was in grade 10 in the early 90’s I was an average student not good at languages but I excelled in physical sciences and mathematics and I enjoyed getting my hands dirty and building stuff. By half way through grade 12 I had decided to become a tool and die maker, I remember being called in to see the guidance counselor and he asked me why I hadn’t applied to any colleges or universities, when I told him I wasn’t going on to any post-secondary education and that I intended to do an apprenticeship, he looked at me like I had 2 heads and proceeded to tell me that if I didn’t go to college or university I would never amount to anything. Now I am not going to talk about what I have accomplished since but let’s just say he was very wrong. The problem I have with what happened is that everyone who graduates high school is faced with the same dilemma of what to do next and unfortunately the students who would make excellent machinists, toolmakers, millwrights and welders are discouraged from doing the apprenticeships and sent in other directions. This likely has to do with money as the governments make a tremendous amount of income off post-secondary education and student loans and people who do apprenticeships like me never have student loans, although I have been paying income tax every year since I was 17, so maybe it is something else.
There are few resources to find skilled hardworking individuals to work in the skilled trades and the few that do exist do nothing to filter out the good from the bad. The hardest thing I ever had to do as shop manager was tell a 23 year old kid that he chose the wrong career path and he didn’t have what it took to be a machinist. Maybe someday I will find that elusive 20 year old that has the skill and ability to really excel in this industry and when I do find that white whale I will name him Moby Dick.
Last edited by Shaun81slc; 08-16-2011 at 03:51 PM.
Unfortunately manufacturing is not in the future of North America, and is pretty much over , it will ony get harder, and more costly to find new skilled workers, it really is sad
But the upside is, I can buy a toaster at walmart for $12
Here's what I think you don't get... young people with talent, ambition, and some smarts are aware that the current unemployment rate for people with a degree is around 5% while the unemployment rate for people with a degree is twice that. Not only that, but people with a degree make almost twice as much on average.Originally Posted by Shaun81slc
Education pays ...
This gap has existed for decades now and is only going to get larger. So, people with some talent, ambition, and some smarts will go get a degree.
The days when high school graduates could make a decent middle-class living are *over*. And I'm not saying that is a good thing, it's just the way it is and the way it's going to stay.
Maybe you should consider people that are pursuing a degree but haven't finished it yet. I'm a software engineer and I have hired students for summer internships that hit the ground running and did a great job with almost no training. Unfortunately they had better things to do after graduating than bang out code :-\.
I agree it is sad that we find ourselves in this state. I personally am a recent graduate with an engineering degree and in no way claim to be a machinist. But I have spent a lot of time in a machine shop getting to know the real deal. It is true that our society has put a stigma on trade work and those who do it. At one point in American history we were thought of as an industrial nation and the phrase 'Made in America' meant something good. Sadly somewhere along the line we lost that pride in order to make a quick buck.
I hope that Markwind is incorrect about manufacturing in America's future, but I see all the evidence that point to his conclusion. We need manufacturing in America both for the economic reasons as well has the pride it would bring back to this country. Our unemployment rate is higher then ever and all of America is feeling the effects. /sigh
Like so many others, I am looking for a job. I hope America can put this sigma aside and respect those tradesmen who produce quality products. America needs manufacturing and Americans need to start buying locally. I can't stand on a soap box and say I never go to Walmart, but I do try. While working as an intern I did look for American manufactures. I just hope I can find a job soon, so I can support my Fiancee and her son.
Best of luck finding that new worker Shaun81slc. PM me a link to your company and I will bookmark it, maybe one day I can send some work your way.
Josh
My son just finished a home build program in his high school. For one whole semester they worked on a job site building a house. At the graduation ceremony the company that sponsored the program explained why they sponsored such a program. It seems that the average age of a skilled worker is something like 57 here. In other words, in a few years they won't have any skilled workers. No one to build the houses. Now I don't know about you but I still don't see China sending over cheap houses. He basically said that the skilled trades was the next big thing because of the lack of anyone joining the trades. We'll be paying the plumbers etc more than we pay the software engineers soon. Supply and demand....
- Jeff
p.s. A good read for you Americans but it equally applies to us here in Canada. http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/di...testimony.html
No worries, we won't need any skilled home builders
http://quacent.en.made-in-china.com/
I still don't see China sending over cheap houses
- Jeff
LOL
- Jeff
I have 32 years of experience as a Journeyman Machinist. Here are my observations and why there are few people getting into this trade. I will say that I have had several jobs in the machine trade all of which I left of my own accord except the last one where the company was purchased by a foreign company and closed down.
Wages are the primary culprit. I will make less today than I did in 1989 dollar for dollar, if you factor in the inflation rate you are going backwards. Degreed people you work for in the shops look down on you as though because you did not get a four year college degree you are nothing more than a common laborer. You are on top of the world when they need your help and when the job is running you are just overhead. Here is an example: I worked at a company years ago running a mill-turn, a bar-feed lathe, and a robot machining center with parts that required 50% inspection and ran a one-off cnc lathe in the time when I wasn't tending one of those and managed to run all four of them on a shift and still was asked why I didn't get more done. this is why people are getting out of this trade. I just finished an associated degree program as a mechanical cad drafter with a 4.0. Hopefully I can make a living between the two areas to last me until I die (not retire).
i agree to this also. Though i am from India and not Canada or America, but the situations are very much similar here. I went into manufacturing industry because my dad was already running a production shop of book binding machines and that is why i started to like the machines and machine tools when i was 13 (i guess so). i finished my school at 17 and the second day i was in manufacturing bussiness. It was like try, fail, learn and redo for me that resulted in cnc lathe.
Now the biggest problem is that we need a hand to run this lathe and unfortuntely there isn't a cost effective. Skilled people have retired and the youth is busy in earning degrees and (just) thinking that how to make money while sitting on soft chairs. Most of them don't want to move a bone. I am just surprised to see that the same is happening all over the world.
jasminder singh
It is better to die for something than to live for nothing.
You make a strong argument, basically speaking our trade is 3/4's of the study involved for a diploma level qualification and when we compete with a 'bowl of rice per day' cheap labor.
Do the math.
Mark Styne has a quote in his book "After America. Get ready for Armageddon" which I think really sums up the problem, and it goes something like: America has too many thinkerers, and not enough tinkerers. Of course, this applies to every developed country.
Seems I am on the other side of the fence.
I should have become a machinist apprentice out of high school, however I listened to my parents, bad move.
Now at 53, with a life time of experience designing 'things' for my own use I find myself once again looking at becoming a machinist.
Just for fun I design an automobile every winter, or at very least modifications to one I own.
Notice the LED lights on automobiles every where? I designed that in College back in the late 70's, oops no patent.
Recently I came up with an idea for body armor to replace the bulky armor troops use, no more ineffective steel plates, at least 30% lighter. Funny thing the Canadian military didn't want to know, so I gave it to the US Army test laboratory. They announced on CNN a few months back that testing is very positive and field testing is set to begun.
I don't lack for intelligence, I lack formal education, and as such, no hope of moving on.
The job I absolutely loved was as a design draftsman in our local electrical utility. Unfortunately it was something of an old boys club, and very backward. When the world was embracing cad and GIS systems they refused to train us because they didn't want to spend the money, didn't see a future in CAD. Sort of lost respect for electrical engineers at that point, lol. I quit the place, that was 20 years ago.
I am in Ottawa, lots of R&D here, not any manufacturing, too much Government.
One other thing I am currently on disability for depression, I wonder why.
So any one looking for an out of the box, enthusiastic designer?
have a great day everyone.
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