Looking for Shops with Camworks?

[Tomorrow_man]

Originally Posted by Donkey Hotey I have two guesses: He's wanting 5-axis machining and doing all of the A/B axis positioning from points he's calculated via MatLab. or He could be working on developed shapes, like flow manifolds. In that case, one could do the cross-sectional and area calculations in MatLab, then translate that directly to machine motion. Of course, if this is what he's doing, there's generally an intermediate step where you would build the actual surfaces in your CAD package, then drive the machine from that geometry. He may have a reason why he's going directly from MatLab to the machine. Maybe the CAD model is too complex or it's unnecessary to the finished product. Hmmm...I wonder if this is why he just wants access to a machine? Hey, Henry, if I've hit on it there, you really should consider buying your own machine. If you're that specialized, you have a captive market and they will have to pay whatever it costs. You made fun of $800/hour for 5 axis work. That was for a one-hour job, but the reality is that simultaneous 5-axis is very expensive work and takes highly specialized people to do the CNC. If you're also providing the engineering development work, that's big-bucks, specialty stuff. I keep making the inverse argument with people: CNC machines are just a tool. In the hands of a machinist, they are a production tool. In the hands of an engineer, they become a development tool. A really smart engineer, who took the time to really master their own machine could do wondrous things. Have you seen the Deckel DMU60? If I were a pure development shop, that's the machine I'd have. It's a reasonable envelope, rotary table fourth and articulated 5th axis. I think it'll go +/- 150 degrees. Lots of capability in that for your development work. Just an alternate way of looking at the problem. http://www.dmgamerica.com/us,milling...k?opendocument

But if The 'DOC' has the big bucks to spend on Solidworks, Camworks, Rapidform, Mathlab, etc., why not buy Floworks for Solidworks?
He could do the CDF for himself, change Surfaces at will, Camworks is associative (as long as the original defined surface doesn't change), toss it on his Hass and away he goes. He could also contract the CDF service and do very well with it. Again, his own words, do what you do best and you should be successful.


TM

[henry_phd]

Greg, thanks for understanding.

I acted like a punk and I was out of order. It is too easy to get out of line when you are randomly typing on the computer. For that I am sorry. I have removed my previous statements because I retract them.

As for solving equations of motion, here is an example. I have attached a project I am working on with a CRS A465 Robotic Arm as a CNC machine (no bit mounted currently). There are 6 motors but none of these are along orthogonal. In a 3 axis machine all axes map to XYZ. In a 4 axis, usually there's XYZ and A the rotation. Now instead I have 6 motors to control. If I want to move straight down (G01 Z1.1 for example), I would need to swing the arm out while moving the shoulder down while twisting the wrist. All the motors are connected through a set of rigid equations of motion. Solving these equations of motion in the world of academics is known as solving the inverse kinematics. I write code in Matlab or C to point the 6 motors to make straight lines or follow an arc on a projected machining plane or normal to 3D surface. In 5 or 6 axis maching, it is a common problem because not all axes will be orthogonal. Cam programs will calculate certain things but not everything so it's back to basic math problems when these occur.

I run a research and engineering firm. I do not have any machining capabilities at all. I outsource all our machining work to guys like you who are experts in the field. Since some of our staff speak fluent Mandarin and Cantonese and frequently visit China, we can arrange overseas machine time and materials at discounted rates for larger production. When I need something done quickly or require a US source, I will go to my local machine shops or post a RFQ like anyone else.

I look forward to being more helpful than rude in the future.

[Tomorrow_man]

[QUOTE=henry_phd[QUOTE]



I stand corrected.


TM

[Donkey Hotey]

HENRY! Welcome aboard, mate! That is some seriously cool work you're doing there. Yeah, I understand what you're doing with the robot & the math behind it.

I know of at least one application where they were considering using Kuka Robotics for doing the same thing. As I'm sure you know, the problem was holding accuracy under a load (it could position very accurately but couldn't hold the position and apply a machining load). That's going to be the development magic.

I'll keep an eye out for low cost machines that you might be interested in. I posted up those two VF-1s but they were probably too far gone for you. A nice Minimill and a Toolroom lathe would run on single phase power and fit in a garage or very small shop (maybe even an office). They turn up all the time on eBay. There was a nice TL-1 in Arizona that was $14K and I don't think it got a single bid.

[henry_phd]

Thanks for keeping me in mind but I leave machining to the experts - guys that do it all day long. I'm just a programmer and math junkie.

The shop in China with the 5 axis DMC 60 will run my code so it's like almost having a machine except it's a few thousand miles away and I need to pay shipping everytime. European machines are popular over there I guess, not too many Haas. I need to write my own posts but it will be ok after some debugging.

My set ups are limited to what can be held in the 4 jaw chuck but supposedly you can machine an entire engine block with two setups (chuck it, machine 5 axis, flip it over, machine the rest). I will probably just leave the remenant holder there most times and have someone local finish it manually.

Originally Posted by Donkey Hotey I'll keep an eye out for low cost machines that you might be interested in. I posted up those two VF-1s but they were probably too far gone for you. A nice Minimill and a Toolroom lathe would run on single phase power and fit in a garage or very small shop (maybe even an office). They turn up all the time on eBay. There was a nice TL-1 in Arizona that was $14K and I don't think it got a single bid.

[JohnJW]

Originally Posted by henry_phd As for solving equations of motion, here is an example. I have attached a project I am working on with a CRS A465 Robotic Arm as a CNC machine (no bit mounted currently). There are 6 motors but none of these are along orthogonal. In a 3 axis machine all axes map to XYZ. In a 4 axis, usually there's XYZ and A the rotation. Now instead I have 6 motors to control. If I want to move straight down (G01 Z1.1 for example), I would need to swing the arm out while moving the shoulder down while twisting the wrist. All the motors are connected through a set of rigid equations of motion. Solving these equations of motion in the world of academics is known as solving the inverse kinematics. I write code in Matlab or C to point the 6 motors to make straight lines or follow an arc on a projected machining plane or normal to 3D surface. In 5 or 6 axis maching, it is a common problem because not all axes will be orthogonal. Cam programs will calculate certain things but not everything so it's back to basic math problems when these occur.

I thought about picking up a CRS robotic arm on ebay because it's one of few low cost robotic arms that are usually available with a full set of manuals and software. However, I think it's a chain driven arm and the accuracy wasn't as good as some of the servo based arms. . . .

Anyway, I wish you the best of luck. Since you are in the business of out sourcing our manufacturing jobs to China, a country if allow to continue on its current course of political/economical development will potentially threaten the democratic system that you have so greatly benefited from, I sincerely hope your company is at least using legal copies of solidwork and camworks.

[henry_phd]

Thanks for your message. The CRS robots are built in Canada are full servo driven (500ppr encoders on all motors) not chain with .05mm repeatability accuracy. Maybe you're thinking of the Labvolt robots. These actually cost $60,000 from CRS before they were bought out by Thermo Fisher. A new C500C controller alone without the arm still costs $18,000 from ThermoFisher today and the servo gripper itself is $2800.

The current F3 unit still costs about the same with minimal improvements but the absolute encoders are very nice:
http://www.thermo.com/com/cda/produc...,21080,00.html

By redoing the controller, you have a lot more control. PM me if you ever need any help with robots. This project is just vision/research mostly. We're trying to make it scan a part and cut it immediately afterward.

Originally Posted by JohnJW I thought about picking up a CRS robotic arm on ebay because it's one of few low cost robotic arms that are usually available with a full set of manuals and software. However, I think it's a chain driven arm and the accuracy wasn't as good as some of the servo based arms. . . .

[JohnJW]

Originally Posted by henry_phd Thanks for your message. The CRS robots are built in Canada are full servo driven (500ppr encoders on all motors) not chain with .05mm repeatability accuracy. Maybe you're thinking of the Labvolt robots. These actually cost $60,000 from CRS before they were bought out by Thermo Fisher. A new C500C controller alone without the arm still costs $18,000 from ThermoFisher today and the servo gripper itself is $2800. The current F3 unit still costs about the same with minimal improvements but the absolute encoders are very nice: http://www.thermo.com/com/cda/produc...,21080,00.html By redoing the controller, you have a lot more control. PM me if you ever need any help with robots. This project is just vision/research mostly. We're trying to make it scan a part and cut it immediately afterward.

Thanks for the info. I'll keep that in mind. I think the one I was looking was an A255 and it was a chain driven model. I'll keep my eyes open for the servo driven model. I can't afford a new one but the older ones were priced low enough to be tempting.