4-5 Axis Big HMC

[Ox1]

I am lookin to retro an Excello 408 HMC with dead Bendix 5. 48 x 48 x 28 travels with full 4th. I do not know if I have a brake. I would assume so. I have never ran this machine.

Not exactly concerned with 5 axis contouring work - at least at this point. More likely 3+2.

I have a chain type tool magazine with Cat 50. Chain is ran by hydro motor.

I have Reliance spindle drive with three speed gearbox.

I have Gettys Servo drives with Gettys and motors on three axis and a porter motor on the 4th. All with resolvers yet.

The 4th uses "Inductosyn" feedback. I know that they offer an analog to digi converter of various stages, and I know I saw an ad once for a competative converter, but I don't think I have that info currently - and have never seen it since. ???

5th axis does not exist at this time, but am hoping to find a larger sized hollow rotary. If new would be 20-24" Haas or Troyke most likely.

I have looked into Camsoft and it looks good from the outside, but the only folks that I have been able to find that were running this were hobbyists with an old junk knee mill or small 2 axis lathe. And most every one of them was having issues. Also noted - they all were running "lite". This had soured my taste - but I have found a just a cpl guys here from brousing a few yrs worth of thread titles that appear to have some real iron and also be happy with it, but those posts were a cpl yrs old.

I was wondering

A) If anyone has a unit similar to mine, and if I could come see the machine run?

B) How happy? How easy transition from say a Fanuc? (Although I don't have a Fanuc on a mill...)

I have a nother machine just like this - but it has a single pallet changer on it. If this retro goes well - I would hope to git the other one going.

C) Who's got a unit running Camsoft with a changer? Just to add complexity for arguements sake - how about a pallet pool?

D) I am sure that I have more than 3 questions - but I am pulling up blank ratt now...


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

[Karl_T]

When you get into big iron and serious CNC machines, Camsoft is probably the least expensive control that is up to the task and it certainly is the only open source control. The key for a quality retrofit is an integrator that knows his stuff, especially the drives in your case. This is not a job for a beginner.

I guess you could say I'm a hobbyist on steroids. I worked as a manufacturing engineer updating all sorts of machine controls before a complete career change. Now, I do Camsoft for fun. My big machine is a Mazak M4. Its a 16,000 lb. 22"x72" lathe with two tool turrets. It runs better than a new machine. I can say the same about my two small machines.

I must say that a lot of labor has went into making these machines purr like a kitten. When you hear of a Camsoft machine that didn't go well, its the fault of the integrator and programmer. The Camsoft machine control programming language is second to none.

If I were you, I'd compare Camsoft to a complete turnkey refit solution like Fagor for example. In general these refits are aimed at short shutdown time between old and new controls up and running. You'll spend more $ but have less time and labor on your part. Which is best depends on your situation. In short it comes down to the age old question,"Have you got more time or money?"

Karl

[btipson]

I know a shop that retroffitted a large machine just last year, not the same as yours. I believe it was a G&L boring mill. They used the professional software and the guys are happy with it. They were able to tailor the control to use their existing programs and setup some new ones pretty easily like a deep hole drilling routine that could drill holes between any two angles around a diameter. Sorry I do not have any details for you, I only played a computer supporting role on the project.

[Citron]

sounds like a nice machine and good project to get going.

I know about the old getty drives and fanuc and fagor controls. watch out with the inductosyn scales. you will need to buy a converter box from

them to use the scales with camsoft. we've switched over some pretty impressive big machines from fanuc to camsoft and the guys that run the

machines said they like it. we even made the screen similar to the fanuc in some ways but better. the gettys drives work great with camsoft which

made it an easy transition from fanuc for us. we are good with the camsoft logic and can customize the system to any tool changer. haven't done

a pallet yet but my guys have no fear on doing something like yours with camsoft. we've done a few now with camsoft and while the first one did

take longer then excepted the next few went much easier. I am available to lend my services.

johnny

[Carlo Rechi]

No machine like yours sir.

I can also do service for you. We are in New York city. We have done some big machines with tool changers sir. We know Camsoft and Fanuc very good. I say that we never did excello machine before but after many years now I learn the CamSoft and can do any machine no matter how big.

Carlo

[Ox1]

D) Has anyone done probing on these?

I can see that being a very usable option in the future.


Well guys - I have an EE in the area that I like to use. Not sure if we would want to doo all of it ourselves or not. This is not something that I would do on my own.

Johnny - You didn't say where you are located...


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

[Al_The_Man]

Originally Posted by Ox1 D) Has anyone done probing on these? I can see that being a very usable option in the future. Ox

I believe I put the bug in their ear about the G31 quite a while back, then it did not exist in the Camsoft supplied routines, I got mine working at the time, but I assume by now they must have a generic routine for it.
Al.

[Citron]

we are in illinois. let us know how it comes out.

haven't done real probing myself but the camsoft folder has several probing routines for renishaw models and generic models given as analog or digital style probes.

they must of taken the G31 advice because theres a common question and macro about this.

johnny

[cnc-it]

Sounds like a nice project. One thing that may be a problem is mixing the pallet changer with a 5th axis..?
Normally a 4th axis on a horizontal can rotate many times without problem during a machining cycle especially if you get the g-code wrong!!
If there is a 5th axis attached to one pallet you would have to add limit switches to the 4th axis to stop the cables getting twisted up which will mean both pallets would be limited to 360 degrees or less..
Have you thought of machining your own 5th axis unit and using a large diameter torque motor in place of a worm and wheel. This would give you much faster available rpm on the 5th for high speed contouring.

Although Etel seem to be the leader in brushless torque motor technology some companies do dc versions which have more torque at low rpm.
Not sure if a Galil card will handle your DC motors mixed with a brushless on the 5th axis...? but a dc torque motor would do the trick and probably weigh less than a worm and wheel unit and take up less space on your pallet..

[Al_The_Man]

Originally Posted by cnc-it Not sure if a Galil card will handle your DC motors mixed with a brushless on the 5th axis...? but a dc torque motor would do the trick and probably weigh less than a worm and wheel unit and take up less space on your pallet..

With Galil you can mix and match any type of motor, even steppers and servos.
Al.

[Ox1]

One machine would be 5 axis - the other is a pallet changer.

Not planning on mixing the two at this point.

I am Shirley aware of the cable issues.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

[cnc-it]

Sounds good OX1.
I have two horizontals with Fanuc 6. They are limited on memory (512K) and can not feed very fast.
The manual gives 5 meters per min max feed but if I go above 3.5m/ min it starts cutting corners!! I think the latest Galil motion cards are much more capable!

John