Camsoft on Mikron HSM700 Looking for Advice

[andrewgore]

Hi there,
I've got a Mikron HSM700 (1997 or 1998 machine) that currently has a Heidenhain Atek HS Plus control on it. While this machine currently is up and running rather well, the control is one of the most finnicky controls I've ever come in contact with. We had explored the option of replacing it earlier this year when the control box died on it. We ended up going with an OEM unit, but are now realizing more and more that this control is causing our machine to be underutilized. I've gotten to a point again where I need to explore options of retrofitting a new control on this machine. I had gotten quotes from other outfits, but personally was a little concerned with price, install time, flexibility, and usability. My brother turned me on to Camsoft yesterday, saying it looked rather unique, flexible, and powerful. I called them up and talked with Gary on the phone for quite some time. While after the phone call I felt that Camsoft will be powerful enough, I have a few more detailed questions that I hope you guys here can help me sort through. I apologize for the length of this, but I want to be as thorough as possible.

#1 Main concern is integration with the servo drives currently on the machine. The machine has Bosch Sercos drives run via fiber-optics and a slew of other cables\connectors. If I can keep this drives in there and not have to install others, this would in my opinion be the safest and most economical option. I understand the Bosch sercos is proprietary and keeping the stock drives in there may not be an option. Mainly looking for input from people that have had any experience with them.

#2 The machine must be able to retain all the stock options. What I mean here is that the control will need to handle the stock thermal compensation that is on the spindle (spindle has remote chiller for it), the stock safety interlocks (on all 4 doors, on tool changer, etc), unist Uni-lube air mister\mist extractor, Torit dust collector, and be able to handle Blum tool touch off laser.

#3 And possibly more important than anything else is that the machine must be reliable. I am not worried about the machine itself in regards to reliability, it is one of the most solid machines built I have seen to date. I know that Camsoft is windows based which will make that far easier for me if the need be to maintain. The current Heidenhain control is Unix based, and if anyone has tinkered with that, they understand the frustrations that can be involved. Basically the machine must be able to run nonstop and be able to just take anything that is tossed at it. All I feel I should have to do with the machine is keep it clean and lubed up; not worry that some sort of electronics is going to crap out on me.

If anyone has any questions, I will be glad to respond. I appreciate any input anyone may have. Here again are some of the machine specs for reference to help.

1997 Mikron HSM700
Heidenhain Atek HS Plus (pre tnc430\530 control)
Bosch Spindle and Axis Drives (sercos)
Step-Tec 42,000 RPM Spindle with remote chiller (remote chiller also controls an air conditioning unit inside where all the electronics are at)
Blum Tool touch off laser (Blum P87.0634-014-A2/2/32-1)

If anyone has any questions, feel free to contact me. I also have a slew of pictures of all of the machine if anyone would like to see those as a reference (I will upload to my FTP as soon as I can). Again, thanks for any help and input on this.

Andrew Gore
Three R Plastics Inc.

[Karl_T]

#1 Get the specs on these drives to the great techs. at Camsoft. You need a drive that works with a Galil control computer. These generally have quadrature encoders and a 0-10 volt signal to the drive. The P-I-D control is done within the Galil computer, not the drive.

#2 this area is Camsoft's great strength. You'll need a good application progammer, all the tools to do this are there. I would only consider the Pro level control for your needs.

#3 Reliablity (my personal area of expertise) - The components are solid. Good design, careful installation, documentaion, maintanance training, etc. will give you a very reliable machine. The weakest component in the system is the computer: two steps here - have clone of the hard disk ready to boot. I also have a complete spare computer with galil and adlink cards ready to swap.

Karl

[Chaka]

As Control System Integrator, we have done several Cam Soft integration projects. When we first started to evaluate Cam Soft we did it in house on a drill table we use for drilling back panels. Later we took an old Bridge Port Series I machine with an old early 80’s computer on it and retrofitted it with a PC.

Later we came across a potential customer that had a custom build drilling rig that was never put into production due to poor controls. The approach was PLC and a basic modal with smart servo drives. The custom user interface never became usable enough for the operators. This customer also had a fair amount of CNC equipment on the shop floor. This equipment that sat idle for over 5 years is now at the heart of their tractor trailer operation. Currently we are integrating Cam Soft for a welding positioning system. And, we have a more simplistic project for a 2 axis feed table into a large press in progress.

I hate to critique Cam Soft too harshly. However, as independent integrator I can be a bit more open then Cam Soft Sales/Support. Bottom line the customers so far are happy. That being said Cam Soft’s implementation is Awkward and dated. As mentioned in a previous post the Galil card is the real motion control here. What Cam Soft does is to convert G-code into motion commands that the Galil controller understands. It also provides a configurable platform to allow for the customization of G and M codes. The AS4000 CAM software really turns me off, almost as must as the corny installation and setup screens.

My concern going into this would be cost of integration vs. replacing the equipment. We so far have not come across a project that the CNC equipment justified the expense, so far. However, if the cost of replacement justifies expense, then it may be good fit.

About the drive if Galil supports the drive then it should work. I am not sure if they do.

About PC’s on the shop floor, in the past year several different Fanless mother boards have come out. This combined with mirroring hard drives is a much better approach to PC on the shop floor then we have ever had. Other common sense protection should also be used like a control transformer for 120V and a surge/power protection.

[Al_The_Man]

There are several controllers that will interface with the Sercos standard drive system, I don't have a list of them all, but Fagor is one of them that has a bullet-proof controller.
Al.

[andrewgore]

Thanks for the input on this. I will keep up my search here. We have someone coming out next week to eye up the situation. We'll see what they say.

Andrew

[noyvirt]

Hi Andrew and everybody,

Same machine and the same controller. What can I say - good machine and awful controller.

We had to change the IP address in the controller because of new network setupin the building.

After we did ip/netmask and host name change in administration/config the controller said that it has to reboot and since then nobody is able to log in anymore using the user name and password (cnc/cnc) that we were given when the machine was installed in 1997.

Do you have such experience?

Does anybody know the original root password for this controller? Perhaps they are the same for all machines of this kind?

[andrewgore]

I'll go take a look at ours today, but when we setup our IP stuff here, we had to setup a FTP server for our network (cyberusftp). Sounds like you don't have direct access though to messing with your companies network setup though, which probably makes things a bit more difficult. As far as logging in, my machine is off right now, but I'll kick it on and see if I can do the same as you. Just out of curiosity, where did you change all the network settings on your machine? With just the standard cnc\cnc login, there are only so many places you can go and only so many things that you can do. There are a few other logins that we had been given to go through and mess with other "admin" type things. I believe the one was:
username: atek
password: atek-cnc

another one of the passwords was cnc-admin or cnc-admn something along those lines.

You can try logging in at the main login screen with username "atek" and see if you can get in via that. Otherwise I'm not 100% without having the machine right in front of me. Not to be a downer either, but there is only 1 person at Mikron who could help, and he's in Switzerland. I can give you his email address, and you can also contact him in regards to your problem. He is the one who was the head of the HSM700\Atek HS Plus program when it was started, and basically knows everything about them. Only downside is the time barrier. Otherwise, he has most everything under control.

Let me know if there is anyother way I can help. I do have a image made of our hard drive in our machine because of our last fiasco with that. Kind of lame how a cnc control that cost us a lot of money was wasted due to a crappy 30$ hard-drive that they installed from the factory...go figure.

Again, let me know if I can assist any further.

Andrew

[camsoft]

Please don't post any passwords.

We realize that this may be a Atek control and not a CamSoft privite labeled model.

If anyone needs their pw for a CamSoft control contact us at support@camsoftcorp.com for your pw and we will contact your dealer if need be.

CamSoft passwords are OEM/Dealer defined and we're sure they want them secure. Many CamSoft OEM's & Dealers would be upset with the person posting. It's up to each OEM / Dealer such as Mikron to decide to give out their pw or not.


The person posting the pw would be responsible for changing the passwords of users for the past 11 years.

Besides if the system is from 1997 you would need updated Ethernet drivers for the motion card and software. You are most likely going to need much more help once you're past the pw.


Tech Support
CamSoft Corp.
support@camsoftcorp.com
PH 951-674-8100
Fax 951-674-3110
www.cnccontrols.com

[andrewgore]

The logins\passwords were in the Mikron literature we have been given. Not only that, but this individual is looking for Atek HS Plus, and no offense, but my guess is the only support you could offer him is to be able to sell him a different control. Unfortunately after my extensive research on this topic, it is not a cheap\easy alternative due to the Bosch Sercos drives. I know, everyone is thinking that well sercos is a standard thing. Unfortunately the Sercos motors that Mikron used with the Atek HS Plus setup requires the certain Bosch Sercos drives. Long story short, if you try to upgrade anything with the machine, you have to replace not only the drives, but also all the motors. Then on top of that you have to take care of getting a new control. As much as we hated it when we had our problem with our machine, the "cheapest" alternative was to get a refurbished control from Mikron for a large chunk of change. We were even told by Mikron (due to our control dying to a hard drive failure), to go ahead and make a backup copy of our hard drive, in the event of another hard drive failure.

Again, the main help needed is rather simple. If you know anything about unix\Solaris\Linux, you can take care of basically what you need to here. I can also get you the appropriate contacts for who would also be able to help you with this.

Please, if you are going to "give advice", especially on the HSM 700, I ask that you actually know something about it and what is actually involved with it. Due to there only being 35 HSM 700's in the states, chances are, knowledge is very limited here (heck there are only 2 techs that work for Mikron US that know this machine and their biggest help is the same manuals that I have).

Send me an email with some more details, and we'll see if we can get you back up and cuttin!

Andrew