Mach to Camsoft?

[walter]

Karl or others who used Mach..

I'm interested in your experiences, how hard/easy is to move from step/dir Mach type software to Camsoft/Galil card solution.

Is it feasible - I'm talking average hobby or semi pro user with servo system...

Any advice/comment will be appreciated!

walter

[Karl_T]

Well, I did it. (I've been called a hobbyist on steroids.) My history - I started with an Excello knee mill - CNC servo Bandit control, 2K memory. I upgraded it to Ah-ha (DOS control) with steppers about 12+ years ago. I then changed this machine over to Mach right before version 2 came out. As a point of reference, both of these controls were very easy to install.

I then came across a CNC lathe where the company had hired an installer to upgrade to Camsoft and the job was never finished. I soon found out this machine was FUBAR and I was in over my head. (The Mazak M4 has a 16 speed spindle tranny,two tool turrets, complete machine operator panel)

So, I went back to that same Excello mentioned above and installed Camsoft. This went fairly smoothly but there was a bit of a leaning curve, mostly with how the machine setup is done. Now the machine was running with a default interface, keyboard control, still steppers. I must say the default interface, at this point, is not as good as MachX.

This is where I learned the beauty of Camsoft. It is a machine control programming package, not a finished machine user application - You can change it to fit your needs. The architecture of the control is BRILLIANT. There is a dedicated real time Galil computer on a card to handle all motion. All I/O is handled by the host Camsoft program - no PLC and resultant communication problems.

I then went to work on that Excello installing a machine control panel, servos, custom programming, etc. I did it one step at a time. Camsoft has a steep learning curve (at least for me). Its more like learning a new computer programming language than learning a new computer application. This bit by bit method worked well for me - no deadlines - the machine was running - just making improvements. I found that the folks at Camsoft have THE BEST technical support of any company I've ever worked with. I should know, I asked a lot of questions.

I've sense went back and re-did that Mazak lathe motioned above. And then a Hardinge CHNC ( a few fine touches left) For this machine, I've tried to "push the envelope" of what Camsoft can do. My son is a CNC machine shop supervisor. He's my critic, and the goal is a better control than anything else he's used. I'm not quite there yet, but it is doable.

Karl

[Carlo Rechi]

Walter

I think if you are going into business then Camsoft is the better choice by far. It is far more professional and shows better. If you already know the mach system then using Camsoft will be easier for you to learn. I showed my customer both systems and they were not interested in the mach system for their business. besides I could only do the things I needed in Camsoft. It is very powerful system with PLC logic build in. Everything is configurable. For me I like it this way better.

Carlo

[Bob Pierre]

When going from mach to Camsoft the things you learned about motors and wiring in Mach will help you when doing Camsoft. There is just so much more to Camsoft. I agree with Karl and Carlo that you will like the CamSoft so much better and find many differences scope of what you can do. Camsoft is made for commerial use. For one, I just like being able to call in to tech support over there. Their tech support has me so many times from being stuck. I even buy my PC's from them now and have them install the cards and operator interface for the machine of my choice for me because it's easier.

Bob P

[walter]

Thank you, I really appreciate the effort.

One thing that got me interested was the dedicated motion control on Galil card, seems like a more professional solution than PC printer port!

The thing that I like about MachX is the ability to plug the machine and run the code- just on default settings.

Can I do that with Camsoft? I'd love to customize things, but have to be able to run the code from the get go. I can't put my life on hold for 6 months

Thanks!

[Carlo Rechi]

Thank you Walter.

Just be sure you ask them for a cbk file for your machine. If you get the right one then it will come ready to go with G code, screens and tool changers to. They have so many cbk files now. When I get a update I see more every time. There are ones for all machines that I play with to learn new machines. If you don't need to customize your system with PLC logic the cbk files they give you will work with about the same labor as the mach check box screens are to set up. You will find many more setting and features in Camsoft but you don't need them to get started.

Carlo

[Al_The_Man]

The significant difference between the PC-software based systems and the Motion Cards like Galil, is with the Motion card, the servo loop is closed back to the controller, so the control constantly knows the status of the servo loop .
There is a fairly long learning curve, and the actual implementation/installation of Camsoft etc, is generally longer than a pre-engineered system like Mitsubishi, Fagor or Fanuc.
Systems like Mach etc, allow the hobbyist access CNC at an economical level.
Al.

[Bob Pierre]

I do think that's true for hobbyist because mach is more economical than Camsoft but Camsoft is more powerful than mach and more economical than Fanuc, Fagor & Mitsubishi. It's like low , middle and high range.

I saw the mach plug in but it still has a long way to go. I don't don't think it will ever hold a candle to Camsoft.

I wish they would ring in because I don't know how to say this but Camsoft once told me that the closed loop on the galil board it much like the closed loop on a gecko. They both close the loop without the PC. Theres something else they told me about how they also close the loop in their software to decide on what to do with the tool path.

Bob P

[Al_The_Man]

Originally Posted by Bob Pierre I do think that's true for hobbyist because mach is more economical than Camsoft but Camsoft is more powerful than mach and more economical than Fanuc, Fagor & Mitsubishi. It's like low , middle and high range.

The comparative cost can depend on whether the original drives/motors are used, if they are not, and new drives and motors are required, then I have found that the cost difference is very little, and if you factor in the reduced time of a pre-engineered system. Then it is can often come out equal.
Al.

[walter]

Lots of good info here. Thank you.
I'll look into the Galil plugin, didn't know Mach could do that...

Thanks again!

[Bob Pierre]

Thanks for writing Brian.

I don't have a pending project at the moment to do. I am pretty set on Camsoft for now but thanks anyways.

If I do get a job to quote. I am holding off buying from them until they come out with their new system. It is some sort of motion card that will be a cheaper solution than mach using a galil board.

The board is only $99 an axis but there is no more information on it. With 6 closed loop servos or 6 closed looped steppers, 6 encoders or handwheels, 6 analog inputs, opto isolated I/O on the faster PCI bus rather than ethernet, like galils optima series.

I have been trying to find out more. I need to find out what this is all about before I decide to buy anything else for future projects.

Bob P

[camsoft]

Bob,

We know you have good intentions but this is why we don't tell anyone in advance. There is no commitment to this board. A release date set will be set when the product is done with field testing. Until then Galil and a couple other boards are the only ones we are recommending.

Tech Support
CamSoft Corp.
(951) 674-8100
support@camsoftcorp.com
www.cnccontrols.com