Camsoft conversion.

[flinty]

I have a 1994 SCM Record 2 with a NUM 750 controller, it is a good machine but dated software/PLC/screen, small memory etc.
It is a 3 axis, brushless Yaskawa servo drives, 10 hp spindle to 18000 rpm and has a 7 drill block which is stepper controlled.
I have recently oerhauled the spindle, it's frequency drive, all the ball screws and numerous mechanical parts, belts etc so it is mechanically and Servo motors/ drivers are in excellent condition, I am having difficulty getting enough info on the NUM to satisy my needs, and it is not a very user friendly PLC so.
I am thinking of stripping it down and replacing the NUM 750 PLC with a camsoft unit the $13K model with all the bells and whistles.
Here is the question, has anyone done something similar and if so how was the conversion, meaning good outcome, within the original price, good back up and support on the hardware and software, and probably, if you knew what you know now would you do it again and if you would would it be with this company??
Lots of questions, but I do not want to start making the wheel if it is already out there.
Thanks in anticipation.
Chris f

[Karl_T]

Sounds like your drives for axis and spindle have a good chance of working with Camsoft. Need to know more to be sure. Sorry, I don't know what a drill block is, but if the driver just needs step and direction it will also work with Camsoft. Replacing all this equipment is a big part of the expense of re-fitting a machine. Knowing exactly what you need here would go a long way toward making sure your cost estimate and final cost result match.

The next step in getting a good intial estimate of cost would be having a complete list of all the I/O on your machine and what it needs to do. Then we can say what all hardware you need and get a feel of how much custom programming is invloved.

Are you doing the job yourself, or hiring an integrator? This, again will have a great bearing on wheather the inital cost estimate matches final result. The experience level and quality of the integrator you hire will have a huge impact on the whole job. If you're doing it yourself, there's a very steep learning curve for Camsoft.

The software support at Camsoft is GREAT. These folks know their stuff. Keep in mind that Camsoft is an open source type control and can interface all sorts of hardware. I generally go to the manufacture for support in this area.

I'm one of Camsoft's strongest proponents. its simply the best open source control there is, period.

Karl

[HuFlungDung]

I see no reason why Camsoft should not work well. Really, its the Galil card that works well, and the rest is just interface sitting on top of it If you can justify the expense of the retrofit, and can put a bit of time into writing some logic, you should be able to get a good workable system.

I've not done a mill, but rather a lathe retro with Camsoft, and while I had my problems with it, they were problems peculiar to lathe threading only, and perhaps could be circumvented with high speed I/O which I did not go with at the time.

I've used my lathe interface for a few years, and once in a while, I'll get to hating how something works, so I'll dig into the logic and rewrite it, and make it do what I want it to. That is extremely rewarding to customize machine operation in this manner. But, I am responsible for how it runs 100%, and accept that, and do not go crying to anyone else because I screwed it up

Wouldn't you know it, I was just acquiring stuff to convert an old knee mill to Camsoft when I latched onto a Haas, so that kind of killed my project intentions

For those expecting a turnkey solution from Camsoft, it doesn't work quite that way. You definitely should be involved in writing logic for the interface, and not be at the mercy of anyone else when it comes to fixing what you don't like about how the GUI works. If you are not prepared to commit to that, then I would say to look for something like a Mitsubishi, or maybe Fagor retrofit, have it done professionally and rely on those professionals for support. What they give you is what you will get, and hopefully it will work out.

The strength of the Camsoft thing is your own creativity. There is much more to setting up and running a machine than feeding a succession of G1's into it. To make every button-push idiot-proof is a fair task

If I were you, I would get only the basic AS3000 cad package that comes with the CNC Professional from Camsoft to start with. Ask for an option to upgrade the cad side at the cost difference if you wish in the future. At the beginning stage you only need the basic cad system. That will still run any externally created gcode file, including a graphic prove-out when the program is loaded. This permits you to continue using your current cadcam system, or any other one, that produces standard gcode.

If you still have a good convenient operator panel on the machine, you will want to continue to use it, or upgrade it. In general, having to operate a machine via the computer keyboard and mouse is far from ideal in a real work environment. So the real pushbuttons on a real operator panel is a very good way to make the clumsiness of keyboard/mouse operation disappear. Still, it will be there when you need it. This means, get lots of external I/O capacity with your purchase of the Galil card.

I dare say that the first retrofit done with Camsoft is expensive, in that it eats a lot of your time. You need clear time, without external pressure to devote to the project, non-stop would be preferable. Once you get into it, you need to stick with it until is operational. Programming (writing logic) even in 'plain English' is funny that way.....kids, work, wife, sex, eating, sleeping....what's that when you've 'almost got it done'? Then, in the middle of writing some logic, you interrupt yourself with an even more cool idea and go off on a tangent in pursuit of making that happen! It's happened to me many times!

[Carlo Rechi]

Mr flinty.

I to have had the same questions at one time. The more I use camsoft the more I like it better than anything out there. The support is very good. The people are very smart about machines. I have learned much from them.

For you I answer your questions very easy. I do know what a drill block is and this may be one of the only packages that will allow you to write the PLC logic to keep track of each drill offset and tool number in the block without using a PLC. I know they already have a drill block routine you can copy. The logic is easy. I learn how to write their logic myself. It is not ladder PLC logic. It is easy text commands that can do the drill block. The screens are bitmaps pictures that you can replace or move. You can copy tool change routines of others and talk to real support people. This system does have all the whistles and bells.

You ask the price. The price is the best part. This is why my customer tell me about camsoft. The reason is that the drill block will need logic. Other CNC controller workmen come in and give my customer a large price. The camsoft system was the best hardware and software price by half price. The good thing is that a man with no ladder logic or PLC learning can program a camsoft controller to do anything they want with the screen or drill block logic or any logic. They have many nice hanging and standing operator pendants to look at to.

Carlo

[Karl_T]

If I were you, I would get only the basic AS3000 cad package that comes with the CNC Professional from Camsoft to start with. Ask for an option to upgrade the cad side at the cost difference if you wish in the future. At the beginning stage you only need the basic cad system. That will still run any externally created gcode file, including a graphic prove-out when the program is loaded. This permits you to continue using your current cadcam system, or any other one, that produces standard gcode.

I'm curious, is anyone using the AS3000 cad/cam package? Comments? I didn't care for this package at all. I found it to be quirky and buggy. Of course, I'm comparing it to AutoCad and MasterCam. That may not be fair.

Karl

[Carlo Rechi]

I use AS3000 almost every day. It is okay. It is powerful but basic. There is no solid graphics in my level. It is easy to learn compared to most cad cam systems. I say I like it okay.

Carlo