Camsoft to replace a NUM 750F

[flinty]

Has anyone out there converted a CNC router like my SCM to Camsoft.
My router is a SCM Record 2. 3 Axis, plus a drill block, 10HP spindle to 18000rpm, It has Yaskawa brushless servo motors and each Yaskawa has its own drive card/box all neatly wired so I hope not to have to change that other than wire to the drivers it has HONDA large plugs for input.
I am keen to upgrade because of all the drama I have had with the NUM750 and it's inability to be user friendly, does not like to reset, prefers to be rebooted for most errors which is a complete waste of time and only has a memory of about 300k bytes.
I am very nervous about doing it so if I can find someone out there who has done it I would be grateful for the information.
regards
chris f

[shysam]

I saw a large CNC router with a dozen or more router heads and pneumatic drills coming in from the tops and sides horizonitally when I went to Camsoft for a class they had there. I was very impressed and so was the man that owned the machine. He couldn't say enough about the good people at Camsoft and how they helped them. They also helped me too. Rubin and the other people in the tech dept at Camsoft are fantastic. I would say that your router sounds very simular to the one they showed me running in California. They have a demo CD that shows several routers and other machines like mills and lathes. The videos of regular people and machines not doctored up. I would highly recommend these guys. The really know the retrofitting business. Their product will take over GE Fanuc and Anailam one day for people like us doing retrofits.

ss

[HillBilly]

Originally Posted by shysam Their product will take over GE Fanuc and Anailam one day for people like us doing retrofits. ss

Fanuc and Anilam both give free tech support on any product they have made, reguardless if you purchased it from them or not. I don't know about NUM but Camsoft requires a yearly maintenance fee for support.

Darek

[Karl_T]

Originally Posted by shysam ... The videos of regular people and machines not doctored up. I would highly recommend these guys. They really know the retrofitting business. Their product will take over GE Fanuc and Anailam one day for people like us doing retrofits. ss

I whole heartedly agree. If you're looking at doing thiis yourself, be aware that Camsoft is an extremely capable and flexible control. Everything is configurable. The downside is that there is a steep learning curve, the first machine is not a small project, especially if you don't have experience doing this sort of work.

Karl

[Carlo Rechi]

I agree with both of you men. Although I think the configuration in CNC Setup is very easy to me. Just fill in the blanks or check a box. If you need custom logic that is what you must learn. I compared Camsoft to Fanuc, Anilam and other systems that use PLC and ladder logic. Some systems you must use a PLC for logic but Camsoft has this built in their software and it is just as powerful. The learning curve for a person that hasn't done this before is much steeper with ladder logic than CamSoft. I can write and debug logic in Camsoft much faster and it would be easier for a new person to learn. CamSoft is best for price and learning curve compare to PLC system for new person. What is important for me is that I can call Camsoft for support on their logic where Fanuc will tell be to hire a PLC programmer and not bother them.

Carlo

[flinty]

I thank all for the input.
What I guess I am nervous of is the hardware connections, I am fairly good in this area
BUT I do not know how the kits are sent and whether I have to source plugs and special connectors/output boards etc generally not easily available in australia.
For example, the machine currently has magnificent Yaskawa power supplies and drives which I do not want to replace nor do I want to rewire from the driver cards to the servo motors which are brushless and in perfect condition.
So what I would like to do is replace the NC segment of the machine, ( which incidently has some fantastic features) due to its dated setup and small memory and the fact that spares are becoming difficult to obtain.
I already build all of my own computers and can setup any type of software so I don' t see an issue with that part of the program, I am also interested in travelling to the USA to complete the Dealer course, but do not want to waste 3 days learning how to do cad/cam setup as I do not intend to move from Mastercam either.
So I guess the real questions are.
1. How are the kits supplied ( I think I would want the top system to allow for expansion of axis).
2. What is taught at the dealer training.
3. Is this product really intended as a replacement for FANUC etc or is it really for "home DIY machines of limited capability" this I raise as I have downloaded the DEMO videos and the machines are really basic and the video's do not show a heck of a lot.
And finally I cannot afford to make a screw up and convert a top class industrial machine into a Hack model.
thanks again
chris f

[Karl_T]

First, Camsoft is the premier control package out there, period. If you want the best, you found it. It has an architecture not found in any other package. Real time control is handled by a dedicated computer on a card - Galil motion controller. The host - Camsoft - integrates the PLC functions with the main program. No other control does this as well as camsoft. This is a superior design that solves a huge number of machine control issues.

As to hardware, you will get a Galil 1800 series motion card that has a Galil 1900 I/O connection board. All your encoders wire directly to this. This is also where you will get the output signal for your servo drives. There is some I/O included on this card - limit switches for up to four axis, home switches, and eight general inputs and eight general outputs. There are also several (8?) analog inputs and outputs on this card. I found the best info for hardwire hookup to be from the galil 1800 and 1900 manuals, available from the galil website. BTW, I'd recommend that you install everything with optical isolation. Everything is done with terminal strip type connections.

This is not much I/O. Camsoft allows installation of additional I/O with Opto22 G4 inputs on a card that will interface to a contec PCI 16/16T card(s) in your computer. I think the max number of I/O has a HUGE limit.

As to the class, I never attended. My understanding is that this is an intro class. Just the basics. The material covered can be learned at home if you READ READ THE MANUAL. It would be nice to meet Ernie and Rubin in person.

Just my 2 cents.

Karl

[flinty]

Thanks Karl, I'll check the Galil site.
chris f

[HillBilly]

Originally Posted by flinty 3. Is this product really intended as a replacement for FANUC etc or is it really for "home DIY machines of limited capability" this I raise as I have downloaded the DEMO videos and the machines are really basic and the video's do not show a heck of a lot. And finally I cannot afford to make a screw up and convert a top class industrial machine into a Hack model. thanks again chris f

I think the best way to answer this question would be to operate a CamSoft system in person on a real machine if possible, since opinions will very. Having personally replaced a Fanuc with a CamSoft system my opinion would be no comparison, just a poor retrofitters 2 cents.

Darek

[Al_The_Man]

Originally Posted by flinty For example, the machine currently has magnificent Yaskawa power supplies and drives which I do not want to replace nor do I want to rewire from the driver cards to the servo motors which are brushless and in perfect condition.

You will need to find out what the current interface is for control to the drives, Analogue, Digital etc? do the position encoders go back to the drives or the CNC control directly?
As a retro-fitter, Having done many makes, I am not completely sold on PC based systems, and a definitive comparison can only be made when one has carried out several types and makes in order to make a qualified assesment.

First, any kind is going to be a learning experience with the first one you do, should result in alot of preparation and learning before the machine is started.
The main reasons for going PC is cost, ability to interface existing drives, (although most of the pre-engineered systems allow for analogue integration of existing drives).
Another reason is always given that you do not have to learn ladder programming, but I do not personally find that any harder, most allow you to use mnemonics and boolean logic, which most systems use anyway in one form or another.
Another plus for PC is the availability of most of the hardware being off-the-shelf non-proprietary.

The up side for the pre-engineered systems such as Fagor and Mitsubishi for e.g. is all cables and connectors supplied, no integration with servo's and amps if their complete system is used resulting in minimum tuning.
All G codes are pre-written (in my case I have to look at the time issue), only the M,S & T codes & general machine logic has to implemented which is neccesary for any system.
Cost is usually higher although if you factor in the time issue it could balance out.
On the very first Mitsubishi system I had ever used, the customer requested a machine down time total of 14 days, which was achieved.
I think the perception of many is that the pre-engineered systems is a black-art.
Just do your research first, before making that first step.
Al.