Homing Options, and Safety Relays MAHO MH800C


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Thread: Homing Options, and Safety Relays MAHO MH800C

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    Default Homing Options, and Safety Relays MAHO MH800C

    Hi
    I have restarted work on my long term project MAHO MH800C, 2 spindles (horizontal & Vertical), 5 axis, 3 linear 1 rotary, one swivel.
    The 3 linear axis have only one switch for limits, that are operated by a ramp each end of stroke,.
    The other option is the linear scales I have fitted, Heidenhain LS477 that do have reference or index markers.
    The rotary axis, has index/refence markers, and the swivel has a switch each end of travel.
    There are examples in the CamSoft reference manuals etc for all but, I cannot find any example code about the one switch for the linear axis for use for end of travel limits, or homing?
    Any way which would be the better option for homing, my guess is the index markers??

    Another issue I have is the starting process of the MAHO which involes pushing buttons in a sequence then opening and closing doors within a certain time frame, this is done though Safety Relays.
    I just want to be able to push a button and start the hydraulics, using STARTUP.FIL and using I/O to check things are right to do so, then if all good hydraulic pressure etc, start the CNC side through either a physical button or an on screen button, dose this sound a good or bad idea, to my mind it would be good.

    I have been able to sort out the encoders except for the pulses/mm/ratio, but at least they are counting up and down.
    Any advise or direction would be greatly appreicated.

    Best Regards
    Burgs

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    Default Re: Homing Options, and Safety Relays MAHO MH800C

    Quote Originally Posted by Burgs View Post
    Hi
    I have restarted work on my long term project MAHO MH800C, 2 spindles (horizontal & Vertical), 5 axis, 3 linear 1 rotary, one swivel.
    The 3 linear axis have only one switch for limits, that are operated by a ramp each end of stroke,.
    The other option is the linear scales I have fitted, Heidenhain LS477 that do have reference or index markers.

    Burgs
    I am going to assume CNC Pro and a Galil card. If either is not true, this advice should be double checked.

    MANY years ago I also had a machine that did not have both limits and a home on an axis. Being a clever programmer, I found a way to custom home off a limit switch

    But, it was not reliable. Work most days then hang others. I ended up installing the switches. My advice, save the grief; install switches. Now, I do have one axis where this was never done. It is homed manually, then the position is saved at shutdown. Only need to re-home if something was changed between shutdown and startup. This works even if the machine has sat for months.

    Homing is really a function of Galil. The home routine first looks for a home switch, then an encoder index mark at fast jog. Finally it creeps off the index mark and declares that axis homed.


    On your other question. Without a doubt Camsoft is the best control for custom logic. It will do what ever you can conceive and program.

    Karl



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    Default Re: Homing Options, and Safety Relays MAHO MH800C

    Burgs,


    The current version has a built-in pre-written homing routine that does not require code writing , there are simple user settings to select from such as the homing travel direction, the homing travel speed, the value the axis readout will display when the home switch is hit , the order in which the axis find the home switches, if the switch should be hit once or twice, if the index marker should be found using Rotary or Linear scale and if there is a gantry axis to be home and aligned separately.



    Use the Design Operator Interface window to set how push buttons are actuated. There are radio buttons to select if a push button is a physical real button, touch screen, a function key on the keyboard or mouse click in bitmap image on the operator button. For example , if you don't need a button and simply wanted to force the hydraulic pump on at a certain time or during the CNC start up, then there's no need for a button. You can simply use this example below to turn on a hydraulic pump in any file at anytime when the conditions are right..


    #100=1' Hydraulic pump ON


    To monitor sensors and switches, these are done with digital "inputs". If the voltage is high enough then you will need a physical relay in between the motion board or box and the sensor. Such things as detecting if safety doors are open or closed are extremely simple to do. To set up a condition to see if doors are opened and closed within a certain amount of time then logic would need to be added to specify the time period. The 3 most important aspects of this design concept is that

    (1) There is no programming experience needed. No programming languages such as C++ or Visual basic script or HTML or other languages to learn. These logic commands are simple text commands that allow you to code any custom function that you may have ever seen on a CNC machine.

    (2) Extremely fast I/O , which can detect a change of I/O state 10,000 times a second.

    (3) The I/O functions run separately of all other actions on the computer and will be triggered by a hardware interrupt and handle independently even as things are going on.


    Tech Support
    CamSoft Corp.
    support@camsoftcorp.com
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    Fax 951-674-3110
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    Default Re: Homing Options, and Safety Relays MAHO MH800C

    Hi
    Thanks for the reply's.
    Karl
    The end of axis switch wasn't my first choice, I could put a switch either end but, I might save that for now and try and set up off the index markers I am pretty sure that is how MAHO did it originally?
    Am running Pro with the Camsoft modified Galil motion controller, CS41630, I/O PCI-7296.

    Camsoft
    I will look into what you have said, but at the moment I have had a few computer issues, such as, loose Ram, computer guy fixed but it came out again, he hadn't pushed in hard enough and didn't lock it in place, resulting in it now messaging the hard disc is needs rebooting?
    Tried doing through XP but during the program searching it said it could not find the hard disc, so back to my normal computer man who should be back at work today.

    The Hydraulic start should not be too hard to sort out, but to do it I will need to remove the safety relay as even when it was originally working it was pain in the backside as there are so many other relays it has to go through before it will start, and only one little glitch or slow/too fast opening and closing doors and you have to do it all again.
    I want to be able to start It with a push of the button, so might use the original physical button for it (it will allow me the opportunity to go from 110V on the switches back to 24V), it still will pull in a heap of relays but at least I should be able to set it up so I know what didn't work.

    At the moment I am nearly out of I/O on the PCI-7296 card so am currently looking to use some of the CS41630 I/O so now looking for more plugs and breakout boards for although if I use the index markers I should just get through.
    I will have to check as I have forgotten whether I have the hand wheel and pendant connected?
    With the door switches for instance there are seven switches alone.
    I didn't receive the 2017 update, last was 2016, don't know why at this stage have asked Camsoft accounts to look into it as it was paid back in March 2017, so latest version was March 2016 18.1.
    I had a bit of a layoff after the drives failed had to have the capacitors replaced and updated to better units, then working to pay for things and also chasing up work which has improved a bit now.

    Thanks Again
    Burgs



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    Default Re: Homing Options, and Safety Relays MAHO MH800C

    Well Learnt more today about computers, another wire was off, this time the hard drive, so have lost most everything, what amazes me is it is hard to pull the plugs/wires off and put them on, might be gremlins in there somewhere?
    The other thing I learnt is that I need to back up to another hard drive or computer as all my CamSoft settings have been lost, luckily I did save a backup from the 3rd of the month so at least I haven't lost everything.

    Good learning curve at least.

    I couldn't start CNC, CNCSETUP and two other programs so decided to reload the last program update from CamSoft 18.1, then I could start the CNCSETUP at least.

    The only problem now is I cannot start the CNC, but can start the rest of the programs, maybe not the CAD program, so I have sent the details off to CamSoft, hopefully they can advise what to do.

    Spent a bit of time going through the files and now starting to get a better handle on the logic, so who knows I might get there yet.

    Leaving the tool changing alone at this point as it is a bit mind boggling with the two spindles, think I might do one spindle at a time!

    Best Regards
    Burgs



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    Default Re: Homing Options, and Safety Relays MAHO MH800C

    Quote Originally Posted by Burgs View Post
    Hi
    Thanks for the reply's.
    Karl
    The end of axis switch wasn't my first choice, I could put a switch either end but, I might save that for now and try and set up off the index markers I am pretty sure that is how MAHO did it originally?
    Am running Pro with the Camsoft modified Galil motion controller, CS41630, I/O PCI-7296.

    ...
    Burgs
    If you are going to use only one switch, put it near ( but not at end) end of travel on that axis. Connect it to the Home input for that axis. Then the Camsoft supplied Home routine will work. BUT you will have no over travel protection.


    Also, if you are running short on I/O just get another 7296 card. Trust me, you are just asking for trouble trying to use the Galil inputs.

    Looks to me like you need to hire Camsoft, or one of their integrators, to write up some custom logic for you.



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    Default Re: Homing Options, and Safety Relays MAHO MH800C

    Hi Karl
    The single limit switch does both ends of limits so cannot move it (could possibly make a different ramp each end a bit longer so it triggers the switch earlier) , but the index markers I reckon should be able to be set to limit/decelerate before end of travel either way by sensing the directions, ie I am going positive and just past the index marker (they are 50mm from the ends) therefore I need to slow down and stop at?
    Good heads up on the Galil I/O I don't think I have another slot for an extra card though?
    Spoke to my Computer man today about going to Windows 10 but is the PCI-7296 card a problem?
    I am using this as a learning curve for an old engineer ( I still feel young in the head not so the body), just need to put more time in when possible, I have asked for assistance from many, sources but I would be better off buying a newer machine as it would be cheaper! Actually I did buy a HURCO VMX42 (manufacture date 2007) that is doing a good job but, dearly would like to get the 5 axis MAHO Going)
    Old work Mates who are electrical engineers and mechatronics gurus took off when I asked for some advice

    Thanks Again
    Best regards
    Burgs



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    Default Re: Homing Options, and Safety Relays MAHO MH800C

    Computers, especially used ones, are very cheap in the USA. Finding one with enough PCI slots and one long enough to hold a full length Galil card is the challenge. Right now, my favorite computer is the hewlett packard/compac 8300 CMT tower desktop. From you first post, it sounds like you need to replace your computer. Camsoft runs fine on either windows 7, 8, or 10. One gotcha here, the OS must be installed as 32 bit NOT 64 bit.
    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...B&gclsrc=aw.ds


    As far as home switches, I may be mis-understanding you. Could you send a pic of what you mean by an index marker? If this is a physical input switch, it needs to be wired to the HOME input for that axis.

    Also, if I understand correctly, you have two limit switches wired together on each axis. Your machine is going to work better if you can separate these switches. The way Galil works, it stop motion in the direction of the limit switch only. This allows you to move back off the limit switch. With your current setup, you need a way to disable the input to jog off the limit switch. I guess, this works also.


    My personal opinion. I prefer Camsoft on an old well made hunk of iron. I got a mill with a Fanuc control. When it breaks, I am at their mercy as to when it will get repaired and how much the cost will be. I am also plumb spoilt with the Camsoft Viewport. It catches machine coding mistakes BEFORE they happen.

    Karl



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    Default Re: Homing Options, and Safety Relays MAHO MH800C

    Mark,

    You mentioned that "I didn't receive the 2017 update, last was 2016, don't know why at this stage have asked Camsoft accounts to look into it as it was paid back in March 2017, so latest version was March 2016 18.1."

    Mark, take another look around. We did send you V18.3 in March 2017



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    Default Re: Homing Options, and Safety Relays MAHO MH800C

    Hi
    Karl
    Hopefully the computer is OK now just need for CamSoft to come back on the error message,
    The index/reference markers are in the linear encoders.
    From the Heidenhain information
    • Selectable with magnets every 50 mm
    • 1 reference mark at midpoint of measuring length
    • 2 reference marks, each 35 mm (for ML1020 mm) or 45 mm (for ML1 140 mm) from the beginning and end of the measuring length
    Distance-coded.

    The magnetic strips are about 50mm long and have been placed at the ends of the scales, these are moveable if needed.
    Looking at the information I have I am not sure which lines are the signal lines, at this stage I have wired them to Uo and -Uo, I might have to chase them up for some information for dummy's?
    The attachment gives the pin outs.

    I am still trying to work out the ratio to put into the CNC for the pulses/mm.
    Homing Options, and Safety Relays MAHO MH800C-ls477-linear-pdf Homing Options, and Safety Relays MAHO MH800C-y-axis-scale-final-jpg Homing Options, and Safety Relays MAHO MH800C-y-axis-scale-final-2-jpg

    The photos are of the Y axis and if you look closely at the close up photo you will notice a small ramp has just tripped the switch when the Y axis is down Y-, when the head Y axis is raised there is another cam on the bottom of the Y axis that trips the switch again.

    CamSoft
    Thanks for that Tiffany has also confirmed I have been sent the update, so will have a womans look not a mans look this time, I keep the updates in a file and it is the only one missing??
    Still cannot get CNC to work it tells me to ring and give the serial number, not sure when the best time to do that hate to wake you up in the morning?

    Thanks
    Best regards
    Burgs



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    Default Re: Homing Options, and Safety Relays MAHO MH800C

    Mark,


    You wrote "OK now just need for CamSoft to come back on the error message"+"Still cannot get CNC to work it tells me to ring and give the serial number, not sure when the best time to do that hate to wake you up in the morning?"


    IMPORTANT: if you need help with an error message , please contact us at support@cnccontrols.com with information on what the error message said.

    Guessing that you maybe seeing a VERSION.ID message that said contact your dealer. We are here for another 2 1/2 hours. If we guessed right, then no need to call. There's nothing we can do over the phone. There is a cover letter that came in the manila envelop titled "Begin Here" that gives installation instructions such as copying the files we made for your machine including the VERSION.ID file that is found on the USB memory stick "Flash Drive" inside a Mylar static bag with copying instructions printed on a label.

    The goal is to Copy Version.ID file to the C:\AS3000 folder.

    If you haven't installed last years update, then this must of been like this since February of 2016


    Tech Support
    CamSoft Corp.
    support@camsoftcorp.com
    PH 951-674-8100
    Fax 951-674-3110
    CNC Controller, PC Based CNC Controls



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    Default Re: Homing Options, and Safety Relays MAHO MH800C

    Ok
    Did that and I have CNC loading again.
    Quite a few issues as last backup that I was able to use was 3/01/2018.
    The Inputs are showing up on the diagnosis screen as being all on?
    Operated the Outputs and they are reading correctly, no 24Vdc turned on at this stage though, so need to go back through my notes and see what has changed as all was ok back on the 3/01/2018?

    I have been sending emails but got no (support@cnccontrols.com) replies?

    Best Regards
    Burgs



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    Default Re: Homing Options, and Safety Relays MAHO MH800C

    Sorry, I am no help with your scales. Sure I could help if I were 10,000 miles closer.

    This is my GUESS

    Hook your one physical limit switch to the home input on the galil. You will have to install end of travel switches or run without them.

    The scale works as a differential encoder. Power pins easy enough. the six pins in the center correspond to A, A-, B,B-, Z,Z- on the Galil interconnect module. Either Camsoft or Galil would know for sure here.

    I am puzzled by the reference marks at center and end of travel. My best guess is this is the Z and Z- index mark output.


    Good luck

    Karl



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    Default Re: Homing Options, and Safety Relays MAHO MH800C

    Mark,




    We have not received an email asking a tech support question from your address to support@cnccontrol.com since January 2016 regarding M7 and M8. We did get a test email at the end of the day yesterday, asking if we were receiving your test emails and we did reply back to let you know we are getting them.

    The ladies in our front office have told us you and them have been corresponding back and forth.


    This is the way we need to continue. CNC Zone is fine for chatting but for diagnosing problems send your questions to support@cnccontrol.com , we are getting them.


    One note, if you send emails that contain large files put the files inside a ZIP folder and use a PC to send them rather than a cell phone.


    Tech Support
    CamSoft Corp.
    support@camsoftcorp.com
    PH 951-674-8100
    Fax 951-674-3110
    CNC Controller, PC Based CNC Controls



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    Default Re: Homing Options, and Safety Relays MAHO MH800C

    Hi CamSoft
    OK something must be amiss, I will have a look at the emails I have sent as many of the issues have been solved, others are still hanging.

    I have sent another email this morning regards the 18.3 upgrade USB stick that is blank, no file at all so I have come to a halt again..

    Put a big effort in yesterday looking for the 18.3 upgrade, and I did find the upgrade 18.3 I had taken it to the workshop and put it in the MAHO file there ready to load up10 months ago?

    Karl
    Thanks for the information, I will get there, plan is to get the MAHO running this year or else it might have to be put out to pasture, to make way for something else.

    Best Regards
    Burgs



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