Procam

[sirius]

Originally posted by dherbman Wish I could add something positive, I can't. I'd hoped that things would change when the company was bought by On-Course, it didn't. I am strictly 2D and the app is not enough. My favorite is when the program crashes on save and corrupts everything you've done. Hate it, loathe it, use it.....

Dherbman, Im glad Im not alone in this opinion.

We have had MANY a fun hour in vane attempts to recover a file thats crashed on saving......I dont know about you, but as we draw our full designs in Procad, that can mean a general arrangement drawing thats taken two or three weeks design time! Seeing as there is also no 'backup' file generated, its a lost cause. You sometimes can open the file - but its empty!!!!!! and the units have changed from 0.000 to just 0. Filesize is either 0 or full size but there is no entities visable or selectable.

What also stinks (ontop of a whole range of things) is how it handles networks. For example if I had a drawing open at 9 in the morning from the server computer, got busy with another job and left it on in the background, and sombody else had spent all day finishing it off on another computer and saved it......then I come back to it last thing and save it - the whole days work is gone. Theres no 'file is already open' 'cannot save' or 'read only' warning on opening or saving files. Its pathetic.

I dont know if you design in Procad, but if you do you have my sympathies. My colleagues know no other program, certainly not anything worthwhile, and thier argument is that its quicker than other systems - but thats basicly becuse it has no options or intelligence. Sure you can take a bit longer in other systems, messing with dimension styles, blocks, etc however the time that is saved doing a BETTER and more sophistacated/intelligent job and the benifit of editing data later on is immense. Its stupidity drives me round the twist.

In my own time, I am looking into the possibilities of other systems.....theres hundreds to choose from. Also Im looking at learning some other CAM software to see how it can benifit us becuase if the 2d design tools are such a pathetic waste of time it makes you wonder about the rest of it too. I have no experience with other CAM programs at this point, only CAD.

Is ProcamII still as buggy as Procam2000? Trimming crashes, printing going silly, huge spiralling lines that go on for infinity from customer data, sudden dips in the cutter path that werent on simulation? Are they OpenDWG compliant yet? - I doubt it. I bet its still the pretender that its a 'windows' based system and not DOS too!!. Are all entities like arrow heads still all seperarte? do you still have to break the profile and draw lead in/out paths?

I remember one bonus it had listed for ProcamII was that it can now calculate AREA's of a 2d enclosed shape (once its a 'boundary')!!!!!!! Well frig me, that IS impressive! I mean thats what other cad users have enjoyed since at least 1988!!!. What a joke.

Like I say, I cant comment on the CAM because I know no other system for that, but in general and for design it sucks, big time.

I think its (allegedly) £4,500 a seat with extras yet to be baught....to think what the company I work for could have baught for the seven seats we have that makes me wanna weep sometimes. The mind boggles, it really does.

To give the Teksoft company credit, I hear the Camworks addon to Solidworks is pretty good. Its a shame they didnt invest some of that money into thier existing products.......which reminds me, ProCam is now being touted as the 'standalone' version of CAMworks in some articles - IT IS DEFFO NOT THE CASE!!

See ya laterz

Sirius.

[dherbman]

Sirius,

It is what it was, for the most part. It is by far the worst design environment I have ever encountered. I use SolidWorks exclusively for design and then DXF into ProCAM. Even chopping that much out of the process, the program is still deficient.
I'm in touch with their sr. applications engineer right now. Don't know that will resolve anything, I've been here before.

Some of your comments about your co-workers would lend credibility to a theory I've had. Most of the user base doesn't know any better. Give me one hour with any proponent of this software and I will turn them forever. At one time, it was the beest thing going(So I am told by the VP who made the purchase 11(?) years ago). His experience in CNC programming prior to that consisited of sitting at the controller with calculator and blue prints. I will say that it is better than that.

I feel your pain....

[sirius]

Yeah, its a pain alright, lol.

I dont want to make out the other guys who work here are incapable of learning modern technologies, but I know they are very worried about it. They are 'oldschool' drawing board people who only went onto CAD becuse they "had to" to keep a job.....theres no enthusiasm there....."if the company decides to do 3d or change to another 2d package then I suppose Ill have to learn it somehow" etc.

When your using a design program thats as stupid (ie dumb) as Procam, and know nothing else, I can tell you even AutoCAD LT is quite a marathon slog to learn, what with dimension styles, polylines, stretching and arrays etc!. Seriously. I can understand the apprehension.

I agree that maybe back in the day, 11 years ago like our first seats, it might have been cutting edge, and looking at the AutoCAD LT of that time (there is one still on a computer from 1993 or something) I would have to agree that Teksoft would be easier to grasp. However, teksoft is still a DOS based program that happens to run on a windows platform, and it has not moved on in 11 years, well certainly not on design or surface construction or whatever. There has been additions to the CAM, but the design is pathetic in a modern workplace.

There was a guy who set up his own business and took a lot of design files with him from work (over a long period) prior to him leaving......he was so blinkered into thinking it was a fantastic program (dispite my whinging) that he spent £4,500 on a seat for his new business!. However, a certain while later he was reportedly VERY upset and in shock after seeing a demonstration of what Inventor can do!!!!. I now think he has a solidmodeller as his main design tool!. That was an expensive mistake to make!. It must have been a HUGE "wake up call"

Currently, Im also using freeware CAD tools to design at my computer station at work and exporting them to Procam because I cant stand it any longer!. Only trouble is becuase the translators are so pathetic it causes trouble sometimes. Like "St Roman =/u +//hu 2205% 8,0 ^1 ^0.5" for a hole note and half the splines/ellipses missing on the print isnt ideal for the shop floor!!! lol.

I really need to get my head into another CAM system. I know the CAD sucks, but untill I witness what we are missing on CAM I cant really say either way how good or bad Teksoft is as a Machining package - which after all, is what its primarily supposed to be I suppose.

Im always keen to push a tide against using this at work, however, you just have to 'get on with it' dont you sometimes and try and not become a pain in the ass banging on about it!


See ya

Sirius.

[ballendo]

I'm laughing out loud as I read the comments...

My experience was due to the local community college using teksoft products exclusively. I sat in on a class a few years back, and couldn't believe they were forcing this program on the poor saps,er I mean students

Had a talk with the instructor afterwards, and asked why they kept with Teksoft. Sadly he said something about a long term agreement and promises never kept about upgrades...

(I was there as an "industry" representative, since they were supposedly turning out programmers/operators for our shops)

I agree that it's possibly the worst environment ever, and needs to catch up with what else has happened since DOS was a mainstay of CAD...

Thanks for the chuckles,

Ballendo

[sirius]

Glad to be the amusement! lol


Its interesting about colleges isnt it.....I dunno what its like in the States, but over here they just latch onto whatevers free or discounted.

I was discussing with my dad a while ago about the vital role that technology applies in current manufacturing and design companies and the HUGE gap in whats being offered on college courses available to the masses.

I kid you not (!!! !!!) our local college still runs an old add on for Autocad that runs 2.5d programs........the machine tool in use is a modified Bridgeport with a PUNCH TAPE reader. Im not kidding. I did the course about 6 years ago, we had no programs like Teksoft at college, just autocad13, and we had to write the programs long hand on a piece of paper and input the data exactly into the program that prints the punch tape. Then we got some foam and cut a 2d shape in the top. This meant you were quilified in CNC programming and trained for industry - lol. what a joke. The course is still running - same technology, same punch tape drive Bridgeport.

Colleges over here are a joke regarding funding for engineering based subjects, and I feel sorry for the poor sods who leave there and go for a job using a solidmodeller with 5 axis programming to do!!!!!!!!. I couldnt do it.

Over here, you have to pay upto £500 ($950) a DAY to go on a three or four day crash course, as colleges are almost useless. Now if you are out of employment and wanted to do a college course to gain skills for the workplace, you are wasting your time - well around here anyway. Its all about money, what should be provided in educational establishments is substandard, and the commercial courses are preying on that with the excessive rates.

Autodesk made a big mistake dropping the College discounts and freebies, becuse they can no longer afford to keep up with the pace, and now PTC are filling the gap with ProDesktop seats for free....and Autodesk are going to suffer from it when 95% of all students leaving college are only familiar with PTC products. I know it was visa versa before, Im just pointing out it was an unwise move for Autodesk.

As for teksoft, we were always led to believe thier were gonna be vast improvements every release - where as infact all they added once was two or three buttons rather then a pulldown menu for some commands, a new drilling cycle or something and Parasolid imports into the 3d system - which still cant handle solid data, its always surfaces.

I know for a fact that the file translations when a customer asks for his CAD design data has lost us work and customers. When all linetypes go solid, all your layers disappear, it all turns the same colour, non of the features are editable (ie dimensions or hatch etc) poeple were no longer prepared to accept that, and I dont blame them.

I agree that its sort of stagnated since about 1992!!!!!! Infact we still have some manuals from the Dos/Win3.1 days in a drawer at work........and if you look through the newish manuals they are almost identical!!!!!!! same files, same proceedure, same old thing. It just got prettier over the years on a windows interface! lol.

I may post up a picture later, to send shivers down ex-users spines! hahahahah.


Has anyone used CAMworks? I always hear its a good product, perhaps they are doing that right at least!.


See ya

Sirius.

[CNC 74]

Does anyone have procam 2004 2d registry key?