Why a BT plasma system?

[BTA PLASMA]

There are alot of other CNC plasma systems out there. There are those running in the 80IPM-1800IPM range. Pricing ranges from $7K-170K+ for larger machines. We have done alot of homework and comparisons between mfgs and options. Some mfgs will sell you a kit for 4x4 $7000+ with a bolt together aluminum table and then charge additional thousands for torch height control and much more for proprietary electronics. Some will sell you a complete package with a flimsy table and poor resolution for just under $10,000.00. Yet others want over $10K for a single drive, poor resolution table with controls and motors you can only buy from them.

We have seen many of these tables over last 20 years of business and some are better than others. Our quest was to offer the best value table without sacrificing the most important aspects of plasma cutting... Torch height control, resolution and movement. Bulltear industries coming from the motion and automation industry we originally we keep a sharp eye on changes in industry. This year the rules have changed and industry automation has finally become affordable. We can accurately move a gantry with high speed and high acceleration for alot less than we could years ago. This evolution in rails, software and digital torch height integration makes it possible to save thousands and thousands on a smooth running CNC plasma table. Our tables use the latest in software and hardware and allow a great value in CNC cutting never before seen. We build CNC tables accurately with our squadron of CNC machining centers and turning centers in house and use plasma cutting equipment from our own design.

Before you buy a CNC plasma do yourself a favor and do a apples to apples comparison and ask these important questions.

1. Does your system include DTHC and what extra does it cost
2. What is the resolution of your system (minimum travel)
3. What travel speed do you offer (rapid and feed)
4. Are your electronics, motor, driver, software proprietary?

[CNCUSER51]

The BT plasma is junk, I am a fellow CNC plasma user and I have looked at many of the plasma systems on the market and one glance at the BULLTEAR shows that it is a hobby machine built without any engineering behind it. This company is great for anyone who can not afford anything over $5,000 because it's not even worth the prices on the website. You have other options in CNC systems that will walk circles around that company. Heck even if you live locally to Bulltear you will find that ShopSabre is in the same state and they build a far more industrial spec machine for not much additional cost. I called both Bulltear and ShopSabre today just to price out the differences and you will see its pretty clear ShopSabre has an idea of what they are doing. Keep in mind the questions this guy has asked you to ask yourself are easy to answer about any machine.

1) if it doesnt have DTHC it is not a true CNC system
2) Resolution is not nearly as important in plasma check on Repeatability
3) Travel speeds will vary on the material your cutting and your torch, does not matter on what the machine is capable of if you can't get your cutter to cut a quality part at those speeds.
4) Anything listed as Proprietary is junk -- A Company should have enough money to give you a good quality Software that is built by a professional company. I would highly recommend considering a product by Enroute, ShopData, Radan. The motors should built by a top electronic company so you do not have a problem with burnign motors out. Easy way to check this stuff out is check the companies failure rates on the motors.



If you want quality ask yourself and the company you are consider these questions:

1) Does it use a cheap hobby controller such as Mach3? If so.. RUN AWAY
2) Does the machine use Linear Guide Rails with Linear Bearings? If not they probably use rollers or V-Guides which is over 10 years old... run away again.
3) Does the machine have a Steel Gantry? It should not have an aluminum gantry or bridge. Aluminum gets hot and causes problems with your squaring
4) Does the machine use a Machine Torch? If it does not require a Machine torch its junk... Hand torches are not designed for the cut quality and heat that a CNC plasma machine is capable of.


Sorry to burst anyones bubble hear but I was miss led by a CNC manufacturer on the market today (I wont say their name to save their face) but I ended up finding the answers to these questions the hard way... I highly recommend spending the extra money on a quality system. If the system is under $10,000 its probably junk and you won't want to show it off to your friends.


Hope this saves someone from being mislead by a manufacturer.


Good luck Everyone

- Alex

[BTA PLASMA]

I guess the broad range of companies from solar to energy from General Motors to start up companies with limited budgets would strongly disagree but everyone is entitled to their opinion. Come to our factory for a demo then form an opinion. We offer serious accuracy with DTHC and water tables on almost all our models.

Judging by your posts you most likely work for Shopsabre but we will let the Administrator tell the tale. It is in bad taste to post lies about a company and slander their name without a factual basis.

(1) if it doesnt have DTHC it is not a true CNC system If it does not have torch height control you will not get the best cut this is true 2) Resolution is not nearly as important in plasma check on Repeatability Exactly (3) Travel speeds will vary on the material your cutting and your torch, does not matter on what the machine is capable of if you can't get your cutter to cut a quality part at those speeds. Acceleration and decceleration are key to good plasma cut corners ect. If you dont have fast speeds and cannot cut at the mfgs recomended speeds you will shorten your consumable life as well as increase slag 4) Anything listed as Proprietary is junk -- A Company should have enough money to give you a good quality Software that is built by a professional company. I would highly recommend considering a product by Enroute, ShopData, Radan. The motors should built by a top electronic company so you do not have a problem with burnign motors out. Easy way to check this stuff out is check the companies failure rates on the motors. Propietary is not junk however software like Mach 3 is ideal for many CNC situations because it can use your PC's processing muscle for movement unlike 99% of propietary signal generators out there

1) Does it use a cheap hobby controller such as Mach3? If so.. RUN AWAY 10000+ users use Mach 3 on this board and in the heavy industry to hobby it is the gold standard 2) Does the machine use Linear Guide Rails with Linear Bearings? If not they probably use rollers or V-Guides which is over 10 years old... run away again. You definately do not want recipricating balls in your linear slides they will need to be replaced much much more frequently and require constant greasing as well are very expensive to replace 3) Does the machine have a Steel Gantry? It should not have an aluminum gantry or bridge. Aluminum gets hot and causes problems with your squaring Again 8020 extruded aluminum is the gold standard for many builds and for many mfgs across the globe. From assembly lines to CNC plasma tables. The modulus of thermal expansion is very low and plasma does not generate enough heat in the gantry area to damage or cause any issue with thermal expansion 4) Does the machine use a Machine Torch? If it does not require a Machine torch its junk... Hand torches are not designed for the cut quality and heat that a CNC plasma machine is capable of.Machine torches and hand torches use the same consumables and are rated at the same life and aperage. Our mounts use either hand or machine torch although you do not require a machine torch with a CNC plasma. Machine torches in general are used on mostly propietray THC like the Hypertherm THC which requires the torch to have an integrated brass gear rack for up and down movement

Although I hate to burst your bubble and hope we both learned here I think you have been sorely misinformed on many things including the BTA CNC plasma machines and gantry kits. I think you should go back to the company who told you this, call them a liar and have them call me direct I will be more than happy to clear up any misunderstanding they may have with our systems. 651-257-7917 -Jim BTW theses tables are engineered if you would like credentials let me know I am sure our guys would love to brag.

[plain ol Bill]

I don't really have a dog to kick around in here since I built my own machine and especially since Alex seems to have kicked all the dogs anyway. But I will say this - I don't agree with you AT ALL Alex. Oh well - who cares what you think anyway I guess.

[BTA PLASMA]

You can use a machine torch or hand torch on our tables. For $8500 you get it all

4x8



Here is one in our shop headed for crating with a TD machine torch

[CNCUSER51]

Originally Posted by BTA PLASMA I guess the broad range of companies from solar to energy from General Motors to start up companies with limited budgets would strongly disagree but everyone is entitled to their opinion. Come to our factory for a demo then form an opinion. We offer serious accuracy with DTHC and water tables on almost all our models. Judging by your posts you most likely work for Shopsabre but we will let the Administrator tell the tale. It is in bad taste to post lies about a company and slander their name without a factual basis. Although I hate to burst your bubble and hope we both learned here I think you have been sorely misinformed on many things including the BTA CNC plasma machines and gantry kits. I think you should go back to the company who told you this, call them a liar and have them call me direct I will be more than happy to clear up any misunderstanding they may have with our systems. 651-257-7917 -Jim BTW theses tables are engineered if you would like credentials let me know I am sure our guys would love to brag.

Jim I have a lot of experience in CNC. I might even consider your invite to come see your facility but depends how far away you are from Hudson, Wisconsin.

Now to blast a hole in your attempt to justify your CNC system....

Propietary is not junk however software like Mach 3 is ideal for many CNC situations because it can use your PC's processing muscle for movement unlike 99% of propietary signal generators out there --- So inaccurate its horrible... Check on many of your competitors... they use a PC system with a Industrial Controller installed into the PC. Mach 3 connects via USB which is junk connection... USB is meant for IPODS, Digital Cameras, Cell Phones... NOT CNC systems. Look at $100,000 CNC systems.. none of them use a Mach 3 **** controller.. they dont use it because it is a peice of junk and causes in accuracy and problems in your communication lines. Anyone of the system out there that uses Mach 3 is considered a Hobby machine... When you look at anyone using a industrial controller you will clearly notice that they are in large corperate companies and have business accounts that matter.. not your CNC systems hobby boys... If you want to make money MACH 3, USB -- both are not the way to do it. Proprietary Software is crap, its very hard to make a proprietary software be competitive with a company who is willing to give you nesting, give your kerf comp, give you the ability to draw and read true line rather then use a straight line drawing program.

10000+ users use Mach 3 on this board and in the heavy industry to hobby it is the gold standard -- Again look at major businesses and companies that highly depend on their CNC systems... I bet you won't find 10 of them that work with Mach 3. Again Mach 3 is downloaded.. there is NO physical component that goes into it.. You need a controller that has its own board that runs the CNC system with a micro processor so the computer does its own thing while the controlling card does the controlling of the CNC system.. Mach 3 is a junk system and has no advantage to the client.. it only helps you as the manufactuer because you get it for free... in my opinion companies need to stop being cheap and start to spend some money on quality.


You definately do not want recipricating balls in your linear slides they will need to be replaced much much more frequently and require constant greasing as well are very expensive to replace --- I am very shocked that you wrote this... you must be living in the past and not be considering what almost 90% of the CNC market has learned oh lets call it... 10 years ago.... what happens to metal on metal if you do not grease it??? It wears down 100% guarentee that result everytime. Why do NOT 1 of the major manufactuers use your style and ALL of them use the Linear Guide Bearings? Oh beacuse its the most advance, smooth, accurate and durable way of doing it. Look at HAAS MILLS they retail for over $100,000 a peice and they all use LINEAR GUIDE BEARINGS. Are you tryign to tell me that HAAS CNC has no clue what they are doing in their systems? If so but your John Deer Green CNC machine really has no chance in this market.... Look at Techno CNC, look at HAAS, Look at MultiCam CNC, look at ShopSabre CNC all of those companies use the linear guide system... even China CNC systems are using Linear rails and bearings.. how can you even try to make a case for ROLLERS. Rollers are so out dated its like trying to say using a horse and buggy is more efficient then a automobile. You need to spend more time learning about your market and less time on these forums trying to bash the companies who are busy building quality and can not find the time to go online and defend themselves. I hope that one of those major corperations see this post and fight for themself... in fact I will be emailing this to all of those above companies because this is rediculious.

Again 8020 extruded aluminum is the gold standard for many builds and for many mfgs across the globe. From assembly lines to CNC plasma tables. The modulus of thermal expansion is very low and plasma does not generate enough heat in the gantry area to damage or cause any issue with thermal expansion -------- Again you are wrong.. common sense says heat travels up... check your temps on your gantry after making cuts.. I guarentee your system is a lot hotter then a steel gantry... again check those major manufactuers... none of them are using aluminum and EVERY one of them I am sure would back my statment that Aluminum is a bad idea. Again you want to save money so you use cheap crap rather then spend some money and give quality.. no one with high production demands will be happy with a Aluminum CNC system.


Machine torches and hand torches use the same consumables and are rated at the same life and aperage. Our mounts use either hand or machine torch although you do not require a machine torch with a CNC plasma. Machine torches in general are used on mostly propietray THC like the Hypertherm THC which requires the torch to have an integrated brass gear rack for up and down movement------------------Again Inccorrect.. contact Thermal Dynmaics or Hypertherm... They both will explain to you and help you understand why Machine Torches are built..... Hand Torches are NOT built to withstand that type of temp.... You need to do more research before saying anything.. I called both Thermal and Hypertherm dealers in my area and both of them laughed when I read your statment to them.. these two companies compete against eachother but they agree that Hand Torches are meant for Manual CNC, Machine Torches are for a Quality CNC cut. The Reason you want a Machine torch is for heat purposes and for the overall life of your consumable... a good CNC system will have ARC and Torch On/Off... I hope you at least have those components in your cheap machine.



Although I hate to burst your bubble and hope we both learned here I think you have been sorely misinformed on many things including the BTA CNC plasma machines and gantry kits. I think you should go back to the company who told you this, call them a liar and have them call me direct I will be more than happy to clear up any misunderstanding they may have with our systems. 651-257-7917 -Jim BTW theses tables are engineered if you would like credentials let me know I am sure our guys would love to brag.
You didn't burst my bubble and in fact I hope you realize I am not affraid to go toe to toe with you.. your design is flawed and your logic is horrible.. I hope that one of the major manufacturers get online and defend themself hear because you are building a business off of flawed information to make yourself look better. You are 10 Years behind the CNC industry and me being very familiar with CNC systems you do not make a very good case against anyone who knows CNC systems.. anyone who may not know a lot may think what you are saying makes sense but if they want true answers I suggest they call one of the major manufactuers I listed above. I will not go back to the "company" that told me this because there is nobody tellign me this.. again I have worked on CNC tables for over 10 years at my old jobs and I also purchased a small peice of junk (much like your system) 3 years ago and regret it everyday because against my better judgment I listend to a gentlmen who said alot of the same thing you are saying and then when I had problems he denied all of the claims.. I dont trust you or your CNC system after reading all of your responses... do some research pal and then contact your competitors and ask them how to build a quality table. I bet HAAS CNC would love to hear that they are using bad parts

Again Jim there is no Misunderstanding here... It is facts so trying to claim Slander is a joke.. Your company might be great for those who want a hobby toy to play with but anyone wanting quality needs to look at something better. You made claims of things that are not true and I am calling you out on it... sounds like its a little more of truth vs. flaws then slander.

[CNCUSER51]

Here is a few pictures of Quality Plasma CNC systems.. notice the quality differences.... None of them use Hand Torches, and None of them are using V-Guide Rollers...

I find it pretty hard that V-guides are better after viewing these systems...

[BTA PLASMA]

I think you'll find about 99.9% of people that use CNC plasmas will disagree with you. Your are very 180 from most of the basics of CNC plasma cutting. I dont know where to start with what you are posting your simply trolling at this point. Maybe we should move this to a more popular discussion area and lets see what the majority has to say.

I really really hope you dont work for Shop Sabre I would think they would be much much more tactfull and wiser about marketing and CNC plasma cutting that what you have posted.

[CNCUSER51]

Originally Posted by BTA PLASMA I think you'll find about 99.9% of people that use CNC plasmas will disagree with you. Your are very 180 from most of the basics of CNC plasma cutting. I dont know where to start with what you are posting your simply trolling at this point. Maybe we should move this to a more popular discussion area and lets see what the majority has to say. I really really hope you dont work for Shop Sabre I would think they would be much much more tactfull and wiser about marketing and CNC plasma cutting that what you have posted.

Ha-Ha , where did you get your percentage? Its clear you get your facts from the same place you get your parts... ha-ha 99.9% of Plasma users ... All I can say is WOW. How many machines have you sold? I have a feeling its far less then the number of Techno's, HAAS, ShopSabre, DynaTorch, MultiCAM. I bet anyone of those users would agree that V-Guide is outdated.. your trying to make a cause that can not be made... I would highly recommend researching more then coming back when you are ready for this battle ...

Good Luck on your 99.9% ha-ha .

[BBchevy396_]

Originally Posted by CNCUSER51 Jim I have a lot of experience in CNC. I might even consider your invite to come see your facility but depends how far away you are from Hudson, Wisconsin. Now to blast a hole in your attempt to justify your CNC system.... Propietary is not junk however software like Mach 3 is ideal for many CNC situations because it can use your PC's processing muscle for movement unlike 99% of propietary signal generators out there --- So inaccurate its horrible... Check on many of your competitors... they use a PC system with a Industrial Controller installed into the PC. Mach 3 connects via USB which is junk connection... USB is meant for IPODS, Digital Cameras, Cell Phones... NOT CNC systems. Look at $100,000 CNC systems.. none of them use a Mach 3 **** controller.. they dont use it because it is a peice of junk and causes in accuracy and problems in your communication lines. Anyone of the system out there that uses Mach 3 is considered a Hobby machine... When you look at anyone using a industrial controller you will clearly notice that they are in large corperate companies and have business accounts that matter.. not your CNC systems hobby boys... If you want to make money MACH 3, USB -- both are not the way to do it. Proprietary Software is crap, its very hard to make a proprietary software be competitive with a company who is willing to give you nesting, give your kerf comp, give you the ability to draw and read true line rather then use a straight line drawing program. 10000+ users use Mach 3 on this board and in the heavy industry to hobby it is the gold standard -- Again look at major businesses and companies that highly depend on their CNC systems... I bet you won't find 10 of them that work with Mach 3. Again Mach 3 is downloaded.. there is NO physical component that goes into it.. You need a controller that has its own board that runs the CNC system with a micro processor so the computer does its own thing while the controlling card does the controlling of the CNC system.. Mach 3 is a junk system and has no advantage to the client.. it only helps you as the manufactuer because you get it for free... in my opinion companies need to stop being cheap and start to spend some money on quality. You definately do not want recipricating balls in your linear slides they will need to be replaced much much more frequently and require constant greasing as well are very expensive to replace --- I am very shocked that you wrote this... you must be living in the past and not be considering what almost 90% of the CNC market has learned oh lets call it... 10 years ago.... what happens to metal on metal if you do not grease it??? It wears down 100% guarentee that result everytime. Why do NOT 1 of the major manufactuers use your style and ALL of them use the Linear Guide Bearings? Oh beacuse its the most advance, smooth, accurate and durable way of doing it. Look at HAAS MILLS they retail for over $100,000 a peice and they all use LINEAR GUIDE BEARINGS. Are you tryign to tell me that HAAS CNC has no clue what they are doing in their systems? If so but your John Deer Green CNC machine really has no chance in this market.... Look at Techno CNC, look at HAAS, Look at MultiCam CNC, look at ShopSabre CNC all of those companies use the linear guide system... even China CNC systems are using Linear rails and bearings.. how can you even try to make a case for ROLLERS. Rollers are so out dated its like trying to say using a horse and buggy is more efficient then a automobile. You need to spend more time learning about your market and less time on these forums trying to bash the companies who are busy building quality and can not find the time to go online and defend themselves. I hope that one of those major corperations see this post and fight for themself... in fact I will be emailing this to all of those above companies because this is rediculious. Again 8020 extruded aluminum is the gold standard for many builds and for many mfgs across the globe. From assembly lines to CNC plasma tables. The modulus of thermal expansion is very low and plasma does not generate enough heat in the gantry area to damage or cause any issue with thermal expansion -------- Again you are wrong.. common sense says heat travels up... check your temps on your gantry after making cuts.. I guarentee your system is a lot hotter then a steel gantry... again check those major manufactuers... none of them are using aluminum and EVERY one of them I am sure would back my statment that Aluminum is a bad idea. Again you want to save money so you use cheap crap rather then spend some money and give quality.. no one with high production demands will be happy with a Aluminum CNC system. Machine torches and hand torches use the same consumables and are rated at the same life and aperage. Our mounts use either hand or machine torch although you do not require a machine torch with a CNC plasma. Machine torches in general are used on mostly propietray THC like the Hypertherm THC which requires the torch to have an integrated brass gear rack for up and down movement------------------Again Inccorrect.. contact Thermal Dynmaics or Hypertherm... They both will explain to you and help you understand why Machine Torches are built..... Hand Torches are NOT built to withstand that type of temp.... You need to do more research before saying anything.. I called both Thermal and Hypertherm dealers in my area and both of them laughed when I read your statment to them.. these two companies compete against eachother but they agree that Hand Torches are meant for Manual CNC, Machine Torches are for a Quality CNC cut. The Reason you want a Machine torch is for heat purposes and for the overall life of your consumable... a good CNC system will have ARC and Torch On/Off... I hope you at least have those components in your cheap machine. Although I hate to burst your bubble and hope we both learned here I think you have been sorely misinformed on many things including the BTA CNC plasma machines and gantry kits. I think you should go back to the company who told you this, call them a liar and have them call me direct I will be more than happy to clear up any misunderstanding they may have with our systems. 651-257-7917 -Jim BTW theses tables are engineered if you would like credentials let me know I am sure our guys would love to brag. You didn't burst my bubble and in fact I hope you realize I am not affraid to go toe to toe with you.. your design is flawed and your logic is horrible.. I hope that one of the major manufacturers get online and defend themself hear because you are building a business off of flawed information to make yourself look better. You are 10 Years behind the CNC industry and me being very familiar with CNC systems you do not make a very good case against anyone who knows CNC systems.. anyone who may not know a lot may think what you are saying makes sense but if they want true answers I suggest they call one of the major manufactuers I listed above. I will not go back to the "company" that told me this because there is nobody tellign me this.. again I have worked on CNC tables for over 10 years at my old jobs and I also purchased a small peice of junk (much like your system) 3 years ago and regret it everyday because against my better judgment I listend to a gentlmen who said alot of the same thing you are saying and then when I had problems he denied all of the claims.. I dont trust you or your CNC system after reading all of your responses... do some research pal and then contact your competitors and ask them how to build a quality table. I bet HAAS CNC would love to hear that they are using bad parts Again Jim there is no Misunderstanding here... It is facts so trying to claim Slander is a joke.. Your company might be great for those who want a hobby toy to play with but anyone wanting quality needs to look at something better. You made claims of things that are not true and I am calling you out on it... sounds like its a little more of truth vs. flaws then slander.

[BBchevy396_]

Originally Posted by BTA PLASMA I think you'll find about 99.9% of people that use CNC plasmas will disagree with you. Your are very 180 from most of the basics of CNC plasma cutting. I dont know where to start with what you are posting your simply trolling at this point. Maybe we should move this to a more popular discussion area and lets see what the majority has to say. I really really hope you dont work for Shop Sabre I would think they would be much much more tactfull and wiser about marketing and CNC plasma cutting that what you have posted.

[CNCUSER51]

Originally Posted by BBchevy396_

I think I have made it very clear I DO NOT WORK FOR ANY CNC COMPANY -- I have a lot of experience running them and got screwed by not having enough information when I bought my first CNC plasma... just trying to point out facts...

Again I have no problem with BT CNC except his claims of superior products.. if you want to target hobbies that is fine just say it.. dont try to say your doing it that way because its better.