PROBLEM (AGAIN)

[tpmx57]

Went to run some parts on the TORQ CUT 22 and the spindle would not run.
It would give me a message of shot pin not in carrier and a spindle high(or low) time out error.
I sat down to study the manual again and believe the problem is in the transmission stop pin.
I brought up the i/o parameter page and watched the spindle status word parameters and watched the shot pin in carrier bit while energizing manually the air solenoid and the bit never changes,I also tryed holding the shot pin solenoid in and changing from hi to low range and back and didn,t get a change there.
If I understand it correctly the shot pin had to retract to change hi/low range.
What I am not sure of is will the air solenoid come out without pulling the drive motor and transmission out.
I have read the manual and they refer to pulling the fan housing and fan off to get the solenoid off but is there 2 different versions of the tc-22 as far as transmissions go?
Not sure if the shot pin sticks or if the cyclinder sticks but will be finding out.
Any info or advice would be greatly appreciated.
THANKS

[machintek]

I hope you have better things to do on a Thanksgiving. But I wish you a great one.

On the right side of the transmission below the motor you will see the ROTAC. This is a air driven device with orifices in the air lines, that moves two plates (top and bottom) that hold the gear assemblies. The top plate has teeth along its perimeter to mate with the ROTAC. The rotac at its top has 2 magnetic switches that confirm high or low gear. They should light up. Below this is the shot pin. It is spring loaded with a air cylinder that locks the bottom plate in high or low position. There are holes drilled in the plate for this. There is a switch that verifies the fact that the shot pin is in the plate or out.

I have with the help of a assistant manually changed gears. I fire the shot pin to retract it. I fire high or low gear to change gears while the assisitant moves the spindle back and forth. You will feel the gear change. They the shot pin hlds it there.

The way the machine does it is very similar but every step has switch verification.

The machine will not command the ROTAC unless it sees the shot pin retract.

George

[tpmx57]

Hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving!
I am updating my post after spending some time with the mill.
I have the rotec and the shot pin working .
I have the reed switches set for the rotec and also the shot pin but am not sure if the shot pin is correct.
I can fire the shot pin manually and watch the bit change state from on to off.
I can manually fire the shot pin then change from high range to low range and back and watch the bits change from high/on low/off to high /off low/on
so I know the rotec is working,these reeds I set per the manual.
The problem is I can go from high range to low range no problem from the control but can not go from low to high.
I get a "shot pin extend time out during gear change" error.
The control will shut down but when I check all bits they are correct and the machine will reset and start in high gear.\
I went to the maintanence page and brought up the 3 bits for hi-low and shot pin then used a midi input to change gears and when I entered the line to execute it the bits changed as they should but I would still get the same error going low to hi.
I was wondering if somehow I have the shot pin switch set wrong so that the control is not seeing the pin retract(bit Off) quick enough
I can start and run any rpm within low range no problem and also run all rpms in hi range no problem just can,t make the change from low to hi range,
I am missing something just not sure what.

[machintek]

Recuperating.
The rotac cannot turn and move the gear plates unless the shot pin retracts.
The rotac comes out after the spindle motpr is removed. Pretty sure of that unfortunately.
Have 4 children and 2 grandchildren. Expecting a gaggle of grandchildren eventually.

George

[tpmx57]

George,
Not trying to interupt your time with all the family.
It is a great time having them at home,the little ones are a lot of fun and won,t be young as long as we would like.
I never wanted or thought I would want grandchildren,I like things quite now and life simple.
Then a sweet little girl came along and I found out how wrong I was.
Shes 3 1/2 now and seems like we were just headed to the hospital last week when she was born.
Time is just going way to fast!
I just post as I further check things while what I find is still fresh in my mind.
Your help with my last problems has shed so much light on the machine I am somewhat able to check out things.
What I found today was that the machine does shift from high to low no trouple.
I watch the bits and see the shot pin retract,high bit goes off and low bit goes on,almost instantly the shot pin goes back on.
The problem going the other way is that there is a delay in the shot pin extending back IN.
I thought the extend error I was getting was the shot pin not retracting but is actually the shot pin not extending back into the plates.
The pin retracts,hi range bit will come on,low bit goes off and then the machine faults,shuts down and then the shot pin bit goes on.
It seems the control isn,t giving enough time for the shot pin to extend back into the carrier or the pin is just taking too long.
If this is true why is there only a problem shifting one way and the other works perfect.
I also thought that for some reason the shot pin just won,t extend back in to the carrier untill the machine faults out.
I watched the shot pin bit while firing it manualy and see that if I just operate it fairly quickly it retracts and extends quickly but if I hold it retracted for a time it takes longer to extend back.
Its like it is building pressure within itself and can,t exhaust it quickly.
Yet it will shift fine in one direction.
It amazes me what all has to go on and be seen by the control to make the machine run.
I wish now I would of gotten into PLC programming and machine repair but was never interested before.
Enjoy you weekend!
Gary

[machintek]

I believe the solenoid is used to retract the pin and a spring puts it back into the plate to secure it. I have seen a few of these transmissions that have not been well maintained and had sludge in them instead of oil. There is a sight glass to check oil level. The spring may not have the same force as the air and thus may be sluggish. Sounds like the solenoid itself is working correctly and releasing the air quickly.
Granddaughter is 3 and grandson is 9. I enjoy family.

George

[tpmx57]

Geoege,
The little ones ARE special.
My grandaughter comes to us on Tuesday,stays the night and goes home Wednesday night.
I don,t get anything done those 2 days and thats fine.
My shot pin solenoid has an air line top and bottom so I assumed air worked it both ways.
What still confuses me is that it will work fine shifting one direction but has a problem the other.
I am not sure what is being moved inside by the rotech but wondered if the shot pin actually makes in a seperate hole for high and low.
I assume it is moving the same lever but it has 2 holes in it and possibly 1 of the holes is messed up not allowing the pin to extend quickly into it.
I do not have a drawing in my manual that shows the insides of the transmission and shift arm(s).
What is involved in pulling the drive motor,opening up the transmission to check/clean it if needed and clean the shot pin and rotech?
Or is it possible that the subroutine for the shift sequence got corrupted somehow and the dwell isin,t there for the shot pin to extend?
Just stabbing in the dark there as I don,t know what is called up by the control for the shift to take place.
It seems this machine just sat to long and neeeds fluids changed and gone over good.
Have a good one

[machintek]

PM me your email address. Bridgeport had a service bulletin about trouble shooting the transmission. I have to find it. The gears are sandwiched between two plates. The bottom plate has two holes for the shot pin. One for low and one for high as these plates rotate to the desired gear position. Plate rotation accomplished by the now famous Rotac.

George

[cheetahcnc]

It sounds like a pneumatic cylinder,actuator you are working on. I have had plenty of these leak at the internal seal. If you disconnect the air feed of one direction at the actuator, and apply air, the unit should not leak at the removed hose. You can reverse this process to check the other side. Sometimes as the seal is going, one direction leaks more than the other. This problem gives a sluggish action. It would also eliminate possible backpressure or solenoid leaking issues.

Jim

[tpmx57]

Thanks Jim,I will try that.
Thanks to you also George for the time and effort it took you to scan and send the files to me.
If I see it right can I remove the 4 14mm bolts that hold the motor down,pick it straight up out of the gears.
Then remove the cover underneath to get to the shifting arms and rotech?
Any suprises in doing this?
I won,t get to do it this weekend,I have a lathe job to get done before Monday
and I very little time on my cnc lathe.
Anxiuos to see whats going on in there if the problem is indeed inside.
I also wondered if it is possible for the rotech to pass up or come short on lining the plate with the shot pin?

[machintek]

Motor can pull straight up. It is really very straight forward from there.

George

[machintek]

Motor can pull straight up. It is really very straight forward from there.

George