TC4 vs. VMC3020 vs. Numerix Control

[emvali]

Following my other thread

Help With Arcs Pause

regarding the known DX32 controller problem with no look ahead capabilities, I would like your opinion on this:

The machine I am using is a Torq Cut 4 with the notorious DX32.

I like this machine after all, I got used to it and I like the idea of being able to find any part with ease. My use is light, aluminum and plastics, modelling and prototyping only, where speed is not an issue.

Almost every day I hear horror stories from users of Japanese machines being ripped off by service and maintenance, often at prices at which you might consider finding a well maintained second hand machine.

Expensive as it may look, Bridgeport parts are more than reasonable compared to other machines.

But.... I am unable to keep hearing the machine knocking at every tangent turn and being almost unable to do 3D profiling.

So, I have 2 options:

1- Is to replace the DX32 with a Numerix control. The switch, while keeping the Yaskawa drives and motors and replacing everything else should cost $15K.
The Numerix control is a killer, I visited today a guy with his 3'rd such upgrade done and he is doing high speed profiling of repaired jet engines blades.
The performance of the Numerix is unexplainable, it is considered to be the top..... unless someone has an other opinion which I will be more than glad to hear.

2- I am offered a model 2000 VMC3020 with Fanuc 21i control for a very reasonable price, $12500 including a Troyke 4'th axis ( I know, I should have added "notorious" before the Troyke as well).
The machine is basically the same as the TC4, Yaskawa drives, 8000RPM belt driven spindle and almost same table and size.

Any idea or input on the Fanuc 21i with Bridgeport combination?

I hear a lot about "Fanuc people" and " the other people".
I have no experience with Fanuc myself - is it really that bad?

How is the VMC3020 in general? Are there any known issues with this combination with the Fanuc as I have with the DX32?

Please, any reply from experienced users might save me some of the hair left on my head after tearing a considerable ammount with the DX32.

[mactec54]

Hi emvali

If you want to see a high speed control take a look at Softservo systems the Funuc 21 is a good control, you have good cam software so you would not have any problems programing, the 3020 was a good machine, how much work has it done, it could be quite worn as well The machine you have is a good machine but limited only by the control

[machintek]

I) Have to talked to EMI-INC.net to see what they could do for you and the DX control?

2) I would jump on that 3020. I am 99% sure it has linear ways. The support is GE FANUC for the control, not FANUC USA. But first get the control serial number and see if it has the high speed look ahead and/or if available and a PCMCIA card slot. I did a 2 inch square mickey mouse in 3D with such a machine as a demo going anywhere between 80 t0 120 IPM with no knocking using the PCMCIA to DNC (drip feed).

George

[machintek]

Also you need to find a good technician in your area. One that knows when to fix it, when call in Fanuc and when to send a part to Yaskawa.
A local shop has one of these machines and it would run away on occasion. Of course when I was there, it behaved. Cleaning encoder connections to a Fanuc interface board corrected the situation. I cannot remember a prior problem and the machine is in a production environment.
Make sure you get ALL books when you buy a machine.

George

[mactec54]

Hi Machintek
You are correct I was thinking of something else the 3020 has linear rails the TC4 & the 3020 are the same machine just a different cabinet & control That is a good buy for a 3020

emvali

If you want a new Yaxes Ballscrew we have one for your machine you would need the thrust bearings as well

Things you need to check

Use your hand held & check the parameters in the drives see if they match what is in the manual someone my of changed a setting in the drives

Slide the waycovers back & see if the ballscrews have oil on them they may not have been getting enough oil the oil metering valves should be changed or looked at every 2 years to see if they are working

[emvali]

Originally Posted by machintek I) Have to talked to EMI-INC.net to see what they could do for you and the DX control? 2) I would jump on that 3020. I am 99% sure it has linear ways. The support is GE FANUC for the control, not FANUC USA. But first get the control serial number and see if it has the high speed look ahead and/or if available and a PCMCIA card slot. I did a 2 inch square mickey mouse in 3D with such a machine as a demo going anywhere between 80 t0 120 IPM with no knocking using the PCMCIA to DNC (drip feed). George

Hi George and mactec54,

Please take a look at the attached photos.
I guess the PCMCIA is behind a little door on the LCD screen's left side?
About the look ahead, how do I check if it has it?
I checked all the books and around the control, can't find it's serial number.... or is it the machine's serial you mean?
The machine comes with operator, maintenance and 3 other Fanuc manuals.

The guy is pressed to get rid of it tomorrow, as he is supposed to get his new Mazak, I will appreciate your answer.

[emvali]

By the way, I tried to contact EMI, even by phone.
It looks like it's impossible to pass their operator, which insisted to contact them by email only to their general info box. She told me Bart is out of the office.

I did that, stating I am interested to be put in contact with Mr. Bart Stator and had no reply.

I then sent an email directly to Mark Ferrence with which I was in contact long time ago regarding a spare part. He answered at least and requested the software version as it appears on the screen. I sent it to him some 2 weeks ago, re-send one week ago again..... and nothing.... no reply until now.

[machintek]

Yes PCMCIA is behind that little door on the left of the LCD.
If you call GE fanuc, they will ask you for a couple of lines of the 9000 parameters to confuse you but that will tell them if you have the high speed look ahead.
Soory about EMI.

George

[TRANSATOOL]

so are you saying that you can not do 3d with the dx32? I have DX32 on a TC3G and have alot of problems trying to do 3D. Should I give up? I remember seeing the 3D mouse made at a show years ago being made on the 3020. It was very cool!

[machintek]

I have cut the same mickey mouse on a 3020 but with a Fanuc 21i control, with look ahead and DNC (drip feed) from the PCMCIA card. VERY fast running about 125 IPM in aluminum. The DX32 could not do the same thing.
EMI has a option that includes their software, and a BMDC 4 which runs faster and has a lot greater memory capacity. The 3020 uses Yaskawa axis drives and motors. Usually this kit is used with the Siemens drives for which they have different optimization boards.

George

[TRANSATOOL]

Hello George,
I had the upgrade board put in last year by Machinesmith. But not sure about the upgraded software. Replaced the BMDC-4 2 years ago. I think my 1999 machine is one of the last models made before they went to Fanuc. So I think everything is up to date. But I still would like to do 3D parts. I use this machine generally for 2D parts and have no problems. But have turned down 3D work and I don't like to ever turn down work. So I would like the ability to do it or start looking for another machine.
Thanks for your help,
Bob

[emvali]

I am replacing the control to Numerix - I visited a guy who had his third machine upgraded with this control and his (very old) machines are running at incredible speeds. He is doing jet engines turbine blades surfacing.

This is when I decided to go for it, it is a very advanced control which gets rid of all the old DX32 remains.

Right now the guys from AMC are checking if the Heidenhain Encoder can be taken out too. For this they need a new version of the spindle's control EPROM. It is a Yaskawa Varispeed 626VM3C.

According to what they say, version 2829 allows them to make positioning with the controller and their software which can read the necessary data.

So this is what I am looking for right now, otherwise the upgrade is in final tuning stages, I will post photos.

If anyone needs the BMDC with the computer or IO boards, I posted them on ebay