BOSS Series II conversion

[springmakercnc]

Hello

I am brand new to your community

Currently I own a spring and wire from manufacturing facility

We have 35,000 square feet of production and 4000 square feet of office

We have a small tool room equipped with basically some mechanical lathes and Bridgeports

After looking at the books over the past few years our outside machine services are dramatically increasing

With this in mind I have decided to add a low dollar CNC milling machine

A friend of mine has a machinery business and has been scrapping old iron due to the high value in the recent past of iron scrap

Long story short I rescued two series II cnc machines these are old tape reader machines but the iron looks ad feel very strong. These feature boxed ways and ball screw drives as I am sure all of you know

What I would like to do is upgrade to a three axis full cnc closed loop controller and servo system. I have looked at the Centroid unit but the Ajax looks identical. At a much lower cost.

I am curious about the addition of a VFD for the head speed

I think these have an air assist knee, an air brake, and some type of a coolant system

I would like any input on this idea if anyone has any ideas

Also for any one who makes production machine and needs springs or wire forms we are your shop! Maybe there could be a nice partnership between the companies!

I look forward to your input on these ideas

Sincerely

Dave

[Karl_T]

For a business, it would be extremely hard to cost justify refitting an old mill unless the stars line up just right... That would be a person with the right skill set that currently doesn't have any paying work to do. An example would be your electrical sytems person if all your manufacturing lines are down/slow.There is a LOT labor involved in refitting a machine. And it needs to be a labor of love.


That said, a VFD for the spindle is a real good idea. Gives you variable spindle speed.

If I were you, I'd look to the gently used market in something like a Haas minimill or VF3.

Karl

[springmakercnc]

Thanks for the post!

I have a fantastic Maintenance department!

My lead man is pretty excited to tackle this project!

He has already upgraded some of our mechanical spring machines with VFD speed controllers (very simple as compared to this type of system)

And he has helped me build simple continuous coil machines that are programmable off of an Automation Direct PLC and a VFD it works pretty slick!

I feel we could do it, as we are not extremely busy right now, and we are not under the gun to get it running.

With this in mind here are a few more questions

First is the Ajax a tough industrial set up meaning is it durable for light machining in a tool shop, or is it simply a hobby based set up?

About the VFD conversion of the head how would one go about doing this with an old variable speed head or do you remove all of the variable speed components and used timing belts with a bigger motor?

If you have any input or if there is a post about this on this board that would be great also

I am new to cnc machining, when it comes to cnc spring production we have it licked, but this is a totally new world for me

Thanks again

Dave

[TOTALLYRC]

Take a look at my build log for some idea's on the vfd and other stuff.


BTC-1 retro fit using DSPMC/IP controller.

I think that the dspmc should be fine when used in conjuction with Mach3 to run your machine. But in the end the decision is up to you.

The VFD controlled from the controller is a real nice way to change spindle speeds. Depending on what HP motor you have and what how much load you will be putting on the spindle, you could just leave the varispeed in one spot and use the vfd for most of the speed changes.

My machine uses a timing belt drive from the motor to the spindle, a VFD for rpm control and a high/low gearbox when you really need some low end grunt for those heavy cuts. It has a 3hp motor.

Several nice things about using Mach3 over the other options is that it is PC based and is not on proprietary hardware. The dspmc has lots of I/O and is still being actively developed as is Mach3.

If you need any more info, please don't hesitate to ask.



Mike.

[springmakercnc]

many questions to ask!

Your build looks great

Can you send personal messages through this board?

If I could drop you a line I have several questions probably too many to type

Let me know

Thanks

Dave

[TOTALLYRC]

many questions to ask!

Your build looks great

Can you send personal messages through this board?

If I could drop you a line I have several questions probably too many to type

Let me know

Thanks

Dave

Click on a persons name in the top left corner of a post and you will get a dropdown that says send private message.

Feel free to ask as I am one of the prime testers for the dspmc board.

Mike.

[Kevin Taylor]

Dave search the BPT post's ton's of home brewed control's sound's like you have a gteat leg up on most of us with your maintnance man some of the late boss's had servos look at the BTC clubhouse I'ts where the one's of us febelminded enough to keep the thing's runing hang out they sport a tool changer with 24 tool's frec drive and servos on a series I chasie there is a big brother in series II casting with tool chang but uses steper's and only has a 4500rpm spindel V5000 I know of two of thies for sale P.M. and I can give you contact info Good Luck Kevin

[cncsnw]

Ajax is a build-it-yourself version of the Centroid control. Hence the lower hardware price. Whether and Ajax is "tough and industrial" or "just hobby" depends on how you build it.

If your maintenance guy is good with wiring cabinets, then he should have no problem putting together an Ajax control. A Centroid factory control, with the cabinet pre-wired, would still be quicker and easier, but would of course cost more.

For a knee-lift Series II, you should consider upgrading to a 15-amp drive and 40 in-lb motor on the Z axis.

Definitely go with the frequency drive for the spindle. If at all possible remove the vari-speed system and replace it with fixed-pitch pulleys. Belt it 1:1 for general use. If you know up front you will be mostly doing low-speed high-torque work, or vice versa, you can choose a different ratio to suit your work.

[Tommy]

I am using a Ajax Kit to retro my Series 2 , so far thing are going together good. I have to machine a Bracket now for the knee motor hope to see this thing moving before long...



Good Luck

[springmakercnc]

OK

Tommy, your series II has 3 motors X, Y and Z

X and Y are table left and right, and in out, Z is spindle up and down are you mounting a motor to your knee also? making it a 4 axis?

If so what are the advantages to this set up?

Once again guys I am not too keen on the cnc machining so all of this is new to me!

As for the VFD on the spindle the 1 to 1 ratio is what I needed to know! I am only going to be doing general machining not cutting any exotic materials, or massive cuts

Once again thanks for all of the input

I am going to contact Ajax on Monday to see what they have to say!

Dave

[polaraligned]

OK


X and Y are table left and right, and in out, Z is spindle up and down are you mounting a motor to your knee also? making it a 4 axis?

If so what are the advantages to this set up?

Some guys choose to use the knee as the Z axis instead of the quill. Your machine already has the quill set up with ballscrew so use the quill. I am going to add a motor to my knee also, but only because the quill travel is 5". I hope to use the knee for tool length offsets, effectively giving me more range than with the quill alone.

As for the VFD on the spindle the 1 to 1 ratio is what I needed to know! I am only going to be doing general machining not cutting any exotic materials, or massive cuts

DON'T DO IT.
Unless you will only be cutting soft material at high rpm's you will regret not having the VariDrive.
Even with the best Vector drives you will SHARPLY loose power at lower speeds in each range. Gearing multiplies the torque at the spindle while the VFD does not. As a consequence, the available power at lower speeds will be significantly less.
This is physics 101.

Scott

[JimPAC]

Dave @ Springmaker!

The Bridgeport Series II "CNC" mills are better iron than anything you will find today!
Ajax which is essentially centroid is as good as it gets, and I have installed them on very large industrial size 5 axis Mills with great results.

There are several Retro kits available for those machines. These are well worth the investment for upgrading and can be amortized quickly versus second hand Chinese, tiwan, cheap junk!

I have personally gone through several B/P of varying models and the two you have are the easiest to do. Turn you guy loose on one if he's already on your payroll your cost should be around 6K for a top notch rebuild with all the features you'll need for some time. I assume these will be used for your tooling needs and unless you make locomotive springs, they should be plenty machine for your needs.

JimPAC