Need Help!- 110 vs 220, 1 hp motor on old Bridgeport

[JKENIK]

My 1958 Bridgeport J-Head, under rennovation, is currently wired for 220. It has a 1 HP motor, which I can have setup for 110. If I go 220, I'll need to have a power inverter put in--my shop is not wired for 220. Question: I will be cutting fairly soft materials--brass, copper, proto boards, silver. We have not dealt with ferrous metals at any point in the past 15 years, but never say never. Its only going to get a few hours of use in a week--mostly for material roughing operations before going on to micro CNC milling operations. Which way should I go, 110 or 220 with power inverter?

[Al_The_Man]

That must be a 1ph motor if it is 110/220v?
If so you do not need an inverter or P.C. but a 220v 1 phase feed into the shop, which you may already have.
3ph motor is usually 220/460v.
Al.

[HimyKabibble]

In terms of motor performance, it won't make any difference whatsoever, so use whatever is most convenient. If you have more than one circuit in the shop, then you almost certainly *have* 220V available, and would only have to add a 220V outlet. But, as I said, for a 1HP motor, there is no advantage to using 220V.

Regards,
Ray L.

[JimPAC]

Al is right!

The old step pulleys have the same torque with either voltage!

Everyone I know have all ended up building a Phase Converter!

My old design generates a maximum of 50Hp and is tuned perfect to 240 3ph!

I have two "new" surplus 20Hp Baldor motors if you are interested/

Be careful with Voltage!!!

JimPAC

[Dagon]

the advantage to the higher voltage is lower current; therefore smaller wires, and a smaller rating on your circuit breaker. This means a cheaper install..
110 volts 1 hp motor will use approximately twice the current of a 220 1 hp motor..

[NC Cams]

1 hp =745 watts or 6.77 amps at 110 volts
1 hp =745 watts or 3.38 amps at 220 volts.

There IS a difference as the motor breaker inside the elecytrical cabiner may be for either 110 or 220 already. If you try to run the 220 breaker on 110, it will eventually fail doe to too many overload trips due to nearly double the current at any point in operation.

RUn at the highest voltage you can. WHy? your electic meter usuaslly has a "demand" recorder, which charges you a premium for any time you demand more current. For cheaper electric bills, you alwasy want to keep current demand as low as possilbe

THere is a difference in overall power cost hence I'd run at 220 as opposed to 110.

[HimyKabibble]

Originally Posted by NC Cams 1 hp =745 watts or 6.77 amps at 110 volts 1 hp =745 watts or 3.38 amps at 220 volts. There IS a difference as the motor breaker inside the elecytrical cabiner may be for either 110 or 220 already. If you try to run the 220 breaker on 110, it will eventually fail doe to too many overload trips due to nearly double the current at any point in operation. RUn at the highest voltage you can. WHy? your electic meter usuaslly has a "demand" recorder, which charges you a premium for any time you demand more current. For cheaper electric bills, you alwasy want to keep current demand as low as possilbe THere is a difference in overall power cost hence I'd run at 220 as opposed to 110.

"your electic meter usuaslly has a "demand" recorder, which charges you a premium for any time you demand more current. For cheaper electric bills, you alwasy want to keep current demand as low as possilbe" - No, that's just not true. The electric meter measures energy in Watt-Hours, NOT current, and it doesn't care at all whether you're drawing 750W from a 110V line, or a 220V line - it will register the same energy consumption in either case.

Regards,
Ray L.

[JimPAC]

110 VS 220 1ph??

Depending on your current load in your shop, you are going to need some 220! If you have the capacity
electrically you should install a couple 220 outlets. Its not that hard to do if you have any electrical skills.
There are several DIY articals on how to do it safely and to code.

Good Luck and be careful with volts!!!!

JimPAC

[NC Cams]

Re demand meter poo poo in post 7

For YEARS we had them on my parents house IN Ohio. NOT all houses Got them, WE got one after we put in a request for a 200 amp service on the home to replace the original 60 amp.

We did that because the house was at the end of the grind on their street. The lights in the house used to dim each time any current consuming item came on, as in furnace blower, stove, dryer, start circuit on refridgerator. Cause: low voltage induced high current demand, and false starts with high current items,

WE got the 200 amp servcie and still had light flicker problem. WE complained as the electrician who installed 200 amp PROVED to utility comany and us that we had low voltage.

They came out an rewired the street at the poles, and promptly slapped "demand meters" on every GD house on the street. The electric bills took a stout JUMP later as we now had a "DEMAND FACTOR" multiple added to oeur bill. They used PEAK demand as a justifier to the PUCO, Public Utilites Comission of Ohio to get more money from a fixed rate utility system.

The KWH's were essentially the same, the PEAK DEMAND (which was measured monthly at each meter by meter reader resettable peak demand gage) did affect OUR utility bill.

IF you run a 1 hp motor, yes, the power WON"T differ if you run 110 vs 220. IF you have a demand meter, you probably WILL see a power price difference if the otor kicks on while you are pulling say 50 amps as opposed to 125 amps.

Then again, I"m noq right at the transformee so I don't have line losses to deal with like others on my grid do, then again my house has a 100 amp service in the garage alone and we bypass the light duty 14 gage wall wiring they wired the house with. All the 220's are wired with the next larger gage wire than code calls for. Everything starts and runs IMMEDIATELY and NOTHING flickers in the house which has its owen 100 amp service..

Again re post 7, I don't make my stuff up - it is all based on fact. We don't have a demand meter on this house in MI. But I'll think twice before I get another 200 amp service - especially if we start to have dimming.

[HimyKabibble]

Originally Posted by NC Cams Re demand meter poo poo in post 7 For YEARS we had them on my parents house IN Ohio. NOT all houses Got them, WE got one after we put in a request for a 200 amp service on the home to replace the original 60 amp. We did that because the house was at the end of the grind on their street. The lights in the house used to dim each time any current consuming item came on, as in furnace blower, stove, dryer, start circuit on refridgerator. Cause: low voltage induced high current demand, and false starts with high current items, WE got the 200 amp servcie and still had light flicker problem. WE complained as the electrician who installed 200 amp PROVED to utility comany and us that we had low voltage. They came out an rewired the street at the poles, and promptly slapped "demand meters" on every GD house on the street. The electric bills took a stout JUMP later as we now had a "DEMAND FACTOR" multiple added to oeur bill. They used PEAK demand as a justifier to the PUCO, Public Utilites Comission of Ohio to get more money from a fixed rate utility system. The KWH's were essentially the same, the PEAK DEMAND (which was measured monthly at each meter by meter reader resettable peak demand gage) did affect OUR utility bill. IF you run a 1 hp motor, yes, the power WON"T differ if you run 110 vs 220. IF you have a demand meter, you probably WILL see a power price difference if the otor kicks on while you are pulling say 50 amps as opposed to 125 amps. Then again, I"m noq right at the transformee so I don't have line losses to deal with like others on my grid do, then again my house has a 100 amp service in the garage alone and we bypass the light duty 14 gage wall wiring they wired the house with. All the 220's are wired with the next larger gage wire than code calls for. Everything starts and runs IMMEDIATELY and NOTHING flickers in the house which has its owen 100 amp service.. Again re post 7, I don't make my stuff up - it is all based on fact. We don't have a demand meter on this house in MI. But I'll think twice before I get another 200 amp service - especially if we start to have dimming.

Peak demand is still determined by energy, NOT current. The demand meter simply lets the utility know what the usage is during peak, and non-peak periods, allowing them to charge the higher rate for high peak-time demand. Current, by itself, does NOT matter. If you have lousy wiring, and are getting voltage droop as a result, that is a completely different problem.

Regards,
Ray L.

[jstiltner]

Peak in the case of the electric co. doesn't mean peak usage for you, but peak hours, IE they charge more for power when there is the highest demand for it in the area , usually during the day, than they do in off peak hours, like 3AM. Thats why your bill went up, because you use power during peak periods.

[NC Cams]

You pay for energy in KWH or KW- hours.

KW is the power you use and it sure as heck IS dependant upon current.

Reason Volts TImes AMps equals watts.

1000 watts equals 1Kw.

I KW used in one hour is 1KWH or 1 kilowat-hour.

40 amps times 2.5 amps for 1 hour is 1KWH
20 amps tiems 5 amps for 1 hour is 1 kwh
SWame power/energy used, twice as much current pulled.

Granted you don't see that much voltage drop but surely you get my point..

If you pull a high instantaneous demand - you pull current, not volts - your current does affect your power and energy useage factors and therefore cost. If the power company can NOT keep up with demand, line voltage drops as power useage goes up.

You can't talk electrical power without considering current. IF you have voltage and don't have the potential to supply current, you can't/won't pull power.

We didn't have lousy wiring - the house had just been wired for 200 amp capabilities as opposed to the original 60 amp service,

The electric service was the traditional 110/220 BUT they did not have enough PoWER capability on the feed to the grid. IF power is to remain CONSTANT, if current goes up, voltage HAS TO/MUST go down - Power =E*I

Since the line was power limited, as current deman rosed in the area, the line voltage DROPPED> WE saw numbers as low as 200 volts.

lets say we had a motor that pulled 1hp or 745 watts at start up. IT pulled 6.8 amps with a 110 lline voltage. IF line voltage dropped to 100z YOu'd now pull 7.45 amps. Nearly 10 percent more current, same power. WHich could easlity equate to a comparable increase in line losses. If the motor didn't start doe to high current low volage, yo uhad a high current spike and wasted energy dut to the false start. And you PAID for the current spike for the whole month.

Via E equal IR, ANY line loss would only piggyback onto your already existing inability to supply adequate power to the grid to stop the downward spiral. ONce they added more transformers to feed us power, everything was fine.

To say however that current does not affect power or energy simply flies in the face of the math as demonstrated above.