Newbie- BPT Series 1 Retrofit Questions

[bnoji]

I had another thread going which I think I took in the wrong direction. I spent last night trying to sort through what I have to work with and what I can do with it.

This probably seems stupid, but I can't seem to figure out what Boss version it is. The manual I received with it says Boss 4, 4.1 and 5. How do I tell?

I need a VFD. I found a 3hp Hitachi at driveswarehouse but I'm not sure it is what I need. I'm pretty sure the old controls are not worth saving. From what I can tell I have a few options (please correct me):

1. Leave the original steppers, Use new drivers: This seems like the cheapest way but I'd be on my own in figuring it all out.

2. AjaxCNC Kit for Boss 1-7: Seems easiest and straightforward and most complete next to the Centroid kit.

3. FlachCut Kit: Don't know much about it

4. Centroid Kit: Too expensive

5. MachMotion CNC Control with Steppers: This looks to be the same concept as option 1 (original steppers + gecko), with most of the planning and research done. It also includes the nice controls. For the price, it almost seems the Ajax kit is the better deal since it includes servos.

I've read about people having to make their own mounting plates, pulleys and adapters when retrofitting. I don't have the time or equipment to do this so I'm looking for a "bolt-on" solution.

Before I spend this much, is there anything I can/should to to check the machine for obvious major problems? I'd like to order a kit and VFD asap.

On a side note: I don't know if this is useful to anyone, but I found a stack of the original schematics.

[springlakecnc]

I built a couple of Ajax controls, they are very nice, (the exact same as Centroid, only you build it). Make sure you investigate the pricing on the software options you need!! I went with a 3'x3'x12" thick electrical enclosure, and was not sorry! If you go with a 3'x2' enclosure, like is standard with Centroid, you will need a feeler gage to fit everything in. Also, not just any computer will work, (even a new one) check with Ajax about what you need. Mach Motion is some nice industrial computer's, the control is in the Mach3 software from Canada. Depending on the software options you may need, this may be way cheaper than you think, as everything (options) is FREE in Mach3. The "Mach" setup is NOT limited to stepper motors, i built some controls with huge servo motors using Mach3 software. Good Luck.

[bnoji]

Thanks.

I liked the idea of the servo motors in the Ajax kit. I was looking at getting their example kit, less the pendant. I saw in their guide that I can reuse the old control boxes and they list the recommended specs for the PC.

The Mach kit does seem to be the cheaper and easier option (no need to mount new servos), but I wasn't sure about using the old steppers and the condition they are in. You mention it can be used with servos. I assume I would just need to change the motors and drives if I wanted to upgrade in the future?

Do you have any recommendations for a VFD?

Edit: I spoke with someone from both MachMotion and Ajax. The Mach setup for a 3-axis + spindle control + VFD is about $1300 less than a comparable Ajax kit. This doesn't include additonal features for Ajax.

The MachMotion package with servos was a little too expensive for me.

I'm not sure what software options you were referring to with Ajax. I assume you were talking about the DXF import, coordinate rotation, large file size, etc.. As a beginner, I don't know what options I really need anyway.

The Ajax website claims smoother operation and higher accuracy with the servo conversion. Are these improvements worth the additional cost?

[bnoji]

I'm a little confused as to how the spindle control works with both the Mach and Ajax systems.

The Ajax setup uses a PLC to manage the original spindle speed and brake controls. I'm not sure how this works when using a VFD.

I think the Mach setup controls the spindle speed via the VFD using one of the PMDX boards. How is the braking controlled?

Also, I was told there is a servo kit from MachMotion that doesn't include the servos. I'm wondering if it is possible to use the less expensive servos from Ajax with the MachMotion controller kit. Does anyone have experience with this?

[DRD]

I have retrofitted mills with mach and ajax kits.
The Ajax kit, has alot more to offer, if you want a true cnc machine.

Mach, simply trys to do everthing approach is not what you want. Also there is no closed loop correction for mach, it's simply a pulse generator, with a fancy do it all interface.

The ajax kit, has closed loop dc servos, that are tunable by the software, and if there is a problem, it will let you know. Also, the ajax kit will support up to I think a 100 volt dc servos at 20amps or so, and will take differentail inputs from the encoders, so just about any DC servo with a encoder will work. The servo drives are smooth as silk also on the motion side. A great bang for the dollar for sure, and the easiest kit I haver ever dealt with on a retro fit, that works and make parts, and not scraps them.

This new "cnc brain" for what I see, is the way to go with these low cost (true closed loop) cnc controls with error corrrection, this guy has thought about how a real motion control system should really work. I looked at his software, and he got the right ideas for sure.
Thumbs up!

Bottom line, there are alot of cnc low cost options out there, it's all about how much time and $$ do you have to tinker with it to get it right.



Good luck.

[bnoji]

So it looks like the Ajax kit is the way to go. I read this thread and had second thoughts about using the original steppers anyway:

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59922

[DRD]

It sounds like your on the right track.
Steepers have there place out there for sure, you shure as heck don't see them bolted to my Haas 5 axis machine.
Give ajax a call, and let them know what you want to do, they will set you up.
The kit goes together as easy as it gets, not wiring rats nest for sure.

[bnoji]

I called Ajax. It seems like it has everything I need and cuts out the need to track everything down. As far as I can tell, I just need to unbolt one of the old steppers to make sure it matches the schematic of their servo. I don't have any way of making an adapter if it doesn't fit directly.

Now, before I go any further...is it worth putting this much $$ into this model mill? Is it overkill for a first CNC?

[DRD]

If the machine is in good shape its worth it to upgrade. I put around $7500 into my lagun, with the ajax kit and sold it for 10k, 5 years later, and made alot of parts with it.
You need to start somewere, and in no time you will want a vmc.

[colin1544]

Hello Bnoji I was in the same predicament some years ago with my boss 5 series 1 cnc I finished up with an Ajax control system and have been very pleased with it, I have used it for the last five years with no problems and it's always done what I asked of it I did mine with a VFD and the programmable spindle speed option. Regarding what you should look for in the extras If I was doing it again I would have the speed option again with the MPG so that it makes it easier to set up tools and job position, and also you can use it to manually machine parts such as blocking up. I would also have the keypad I would consider this useful in the respect that you have dedicated keys for table movement,feed and spindle speed control and stop start plus secondary functions. With these options you can build the computer into the cabinet and have the keypad next to the screen and the MPG control Floating, then if you have the spare cash the DXF import and if you need to engrave anything then you need millwrite as there is no facility in the control or the standard intercon software for engraving. Done altogether I would imagine you should be able to strike a better deal for a package of this size. Hope this helps in your decision making Cheers Colin

[bnoji]

Thanks for the input. I picked the Boss 1-7 kit with spindle speed and power supplies. I'll need to order a VFD with it too. I haven't decided on the dedicated control pad or MPG.

I don't mind if I don't have a few extras right away as long as I can purchase them and upgrade later.

[Dennis Storzek]

I've been running an old BOSS Series I that was upgraded with servos and Centroid M-15 control about ten years ago, and like it. Never had any major problems other than disk drive failures, which we fixed ourselves, and lightning taking the mother board out, which Centroid was able to fix.

I would definitely get the unlimited file size option; no matter how big the 600k file sounds now, you will eventually find yourself exceeding it and having to run the part with multiple programs, which really sucks when you realize you could hve just let it run overnight. Finishing passes with ball nose cutters on freeform surfaces can really make the programs huge. If you intend to run any sort of production, the multiple work coordinate option would be useful, also.

Dennis