1994 Bridgeport V2xt

[DF-ENTERPRISES]

Hi everybody.

I just bought a 1994 V2XT with a BP XT control. It did not come with any tooling or manuals. It has a power draw bar with quick switch spindle.

I'm guessing it takes erickson style quick change #30 tooling. If anybody could tell me the best place to get tool holders or even put a link of which holder I exactly need that would be great. Also any ideas where I can get any manuals for it?

Thanks in advance for anybodys help or comments.

Derrick

[NEATman]

Derrick-
There is a Yahoo group for V2XT owners:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/v2xt/
There are some schematics and manuals posted there, and all kinds of great information regarding the V2XT. My screen name there is "home_machinist"

Regarding the spindle, I have a 1993 V2XT and it indeed takes Erickson #30 Quick Change tooling. It has a Kurt power drawbar with a 1/2-13 thread. I have found tooling for my machine at a local used machinery tool dealer (http://www.brothersmachinery.com/) and they are usually $20-25 each for quality used holders. I have also had luck on e-bay with several toolholders, you just need to be paitient. You can search for "NMTB 30" with is the equivalent of Erickson #30. I have purchased a few toolholders from Kennametal (www.kennametal.com). You can start with endmill holders with the following part number string QC30EM050175 (this is a 1/2" bore end mill holder) http://www.kennametal.com/en/new_cat...equestid=34075

I hope this helps!

NEATman

[DF-ENTERPRISES]

Thanks for all the info neatman! I'll check out that yahoo group to.

What kind of phase converter do you have hooked up to your machine? My machine was wired for 460 volts so I have to change it for 220 volts. I was looking at a american rotorary brand converter.

Thanks again.

[NEATman]

Derrick-
It's a long story, but I have gutted and replaced the entire set of controls with newer electronics, running Mach3. All of the new electronics are 110VAC single phase. I am running the spindle motor with a VFD, and that is single phase in three phase out. I have not yet connected the VFD to run under Mach3 control, however, that is slated for the next major upgrade - Mach3 as the interface software, and a 4 axis Galil board as the motor controllers. I have brushless DC motors, cables and drives along with an entire Galil 4 axis set up. I am just starting to bench test this setup, as I want to keep my machine fully functional for as long as possible before converting to the new setup.

I had originally run the machine with the original electronics on a cheap phase converter and a surplus 5 HP 3 phase motor. It was noisy, consumed power when the spindle wasn't even running, and the legs voltages varied widely. These facts may have hasened the death of the original computer, and the replacement one that I put in. I had wanted to upgrade the controls since the first day I bought the machine, so I really didn't mind that the original motherboard fried. Let me know if you want some spare circuit boards or power supply - they are taking up valuable room in my small shop where I could store other junk!

NEATman

[DF-ENTERPRISES]

I havn't look into a VFD at all. Is that better than a rotary converter? I just purchased a american rotary cnc converter. I bought my machine with a fried mother board but I got a new mother board and hard drive from EMI.
(http://67.59.141.211/BridgeportQuickList.html )check em out. Sounds like you are doing a overhaul of your control. good luck. Let me know how it works. Thanks again for your help...

[NEATman]

The only remaining 3 phase part of my machine is the spindle motor, and that can easily run on a VFD. DO NOT run your 3 phase controller on any kind of VFD - they are only used for properly rated motors.
It sounds like the rotary phase converter that you purchased should do the trick nicely.
NEATman

[Big Daddy]

Well Derrick it sounds like your doing the right thing with the control up-grade. Good choice. The old XT controls & PC are very limited to say the least. The other thing though that you might have to consider is upgrading the BMDC board in the old XT. I’m not sure,, I did a complete hop-up in my V2XT but it was a late 90’s model. I gutted the old PC and dropped in a Pentium 3 mother board running widows and was able to plug in the BMDC board seamlessly which was nice. Then I loaded the new computer up to the hilt. Max’ed out the ram and so on, new V93 modem so the machine goes online, grabs emailed images out of my email to program & make, all while the machine is knee deep in chips with the spindle blazing away throwing more! As far as the VFD, I’m running a really nice sensorless vector drive Hitachi version with a 71/2 Hp rotary phase converter also thru buck boosters to tame the wild legs! Its way better then the city power (it’s within; +\- 1 percent). But good luck with your project.

[NC Cams]

DF-Enterprises: If you are pulling out/removing the BMDC controller, Let me know. I might be interested in buying the BMDC and/or the related interface cards and/or wiring as spares for my V2XT and/or Extrak machines.

Advise with P/N"s off of BMDC and auxialliar boards please as there are old, new and inbetween models that affect their useage-reuse potential. Some fits all and some don't. V2XT should "fit all" if it is the BMDC NOT FMDC based system.

[Big Daddy]

That's my point exactly!!! Some of the older V2XT’s did come out with the FMDC as I recall, which has limitations or the very least first & very early serial numbered BMDC’s. As far as a newer serial numbered BMDC boards goes,, I suggest EMI. They have pretty good prices on BMDC’s. There is no way I'm parting with mine,,, sorry!

[NC Cams]

I"ve heard many conflicting stories about BMDC's but none of them involve "..pretty good prices..." and EMI in the same sentence.

About 3 years ago, I priced a BMDC from Hardinge directly and (sadly) didn't buy it when they wanted $1500 outright. Since then, the price has gone to $1200 to #1500 EXCHANGE from EMI. Last time I heard of an outright price, it was over $2500 and I don't believe they even offer then outright anymore - EMI apparently needs/wants to keep control over the "cores".

The BMDC is NOT exceptionally pricey when you look at individual components. The IC's are essentially older generation micro controls. Some of the associated IC's are exactly the same as those used in the long defunct Amiga computer. A quickie calc shows that the IC's can be obtained, mostly surplus, for around $250, usually much less.

The PCB is a multi layer one, which in its day, was pricey to make - today, not so. When I asked why EMI did not make "new" boards, I got conflicting "stories". Like, "no artwork" (readily doable with today's software), "no schematic" (there is one published in Bridgeport manual), "no info on the programmed IC's" (they are readily copyable according to aftermarket guys who fix them) and the topper "we don't have the technology to do 4 layer boards" (you can download it for free from a number of prototype board houses) and the ever daunting "there are copyright issues" (always resolveable via licensing and the payment of royalties - reasonable or otherwise).

Depending on the validity of the copyrights and whether or not they were PROPERLY protected (few people do so PROPERLY), this may be a paper tiger that is easily surmountable - especially if you KNOW and study the 17 USC copyright law.

I think the real reason is a bit more obvious - money. The market for the boards has slowly shrunk and the folks who need them are becoming more and more dependant on the remaining source for parts and service - spend what the sole service outlet asks (no other choice) or replace the machine. Spend a few thousand or ten times that much. Do the math, it is a simple answer.

There is value in scarcity and the BMDC's are becoming scarce. Keeping them scarce makes for good end of product life business potential. However they are NOT unduplicable rocket science technology. Rather, the BMDC is orphan tecnology that some enterprising soul hasn't expoited yet.

If folks can can clone a PC and have OEM software run on them not run afoul of IBM patents/copyrights, I don't see why the same can't be done to the BMDC. Especially when there isn't a single solitary copyright or patent registerrf in the C/R and/or patent office on/for them by Bridgeport or anyone that is readiliy associated with Bridgeport. Maybe EMI can't do anything with the "trade secrets" contained therein because they worked at BPT on the development of the BMDC, but surely, someone else not so burdened could.

The BMDC is a pretty neat control scheme that works on a lowly and now essentially FREE DOS based PC's - and it will readily do 3 or 4 axis controls of lathe, VMC, and/or mill with one single card and the various somewhat generic BOB's. Why someone hasn't cloned it is beyond me.....

[Big Daddy]

What I’ve found since the demise of Bridgeport is that surpluses’ seem to think they have a piece of gold. When I was shopping 2 years ago the surpluses wanted 2 grand minimum for a BMDC used. I mean really used! At least EMI is reputable and will refund,,,, good luck finding that any where else. My cost in 2005 dollars was 1,200 bucks. That’s not bad especially for a new board! On the other subject, I think EMI bought the rights from Bridgeport on some of the Bridgeport products what exactly I don’t know. But one I do know of was developed in the final days of Bridgeport & never released to the general public for the smaller machines primarily. It is enhanced machine parameters which in turn dramatically enhance the machines performance. I purchased a copy of this from EMI and loaded it in my little V2 and it has been well worth the 500 bucks. As far as everything else goes,,, your not the first person I’ve heard talk about this issue!!!! If you can catch my drift??

[NC Cams]

What WAS $2000 in 2005 is not that way anymore. Last I heard, NOBODY was selling BMDC's outight, not anymore. Hardinge was selling BMDC's for about $1500 in 2004 but not now. They supposedly have since farmed out all the legacy BMDC sales/service work to EMI.

Regarding the following:

".....But one I do know of was developed in the final days of Bridgeport & never released to the general public for the smaller machines primarily. It is enhanced machine parameters which in turn dramatically enhance the machines performance. I purchased a copy of this from EMI and loaded it in my little V2 and it has been well worth the 500 bucks...."

Question: what does the "enhanced" software do over the factory stuff?

There is a version 7 beta of the Eztrak software - it got out into the public and some of the ex-BPT service people got it via the "good old boy network". My tech loaded it in my machine when he installed DOM and tuned the servos.

There also was a version of beta VMC code that ran circles around the factory code. It got developed and was being tested around the time problems developed with the released code that ran in herky-jerky fashion in the VMC's. However, this was at about the same time there were some class action suits filed claiming the BMDC was defective as it allegedly didn't perform as advertised (do a web search, the suit was dropped when BPT filed bankruptcy).

Someone I trust who literaly saw the VMC code run in the field said it fixed the herky jerky motion problems but BPT brass couldn't/wouldn't allow it out into production for what should be obvious reasons.

In my first hand discussions with an ex-BPT engineer i learned that he'd written all new code for one particular BMDC fitted "small" machine - clean code that would pass muster re: copyright and or other legal limitations. He simply was scared of geting involved with the legal hassles ongoing at the time however so he abandoned any idea of marketing the software.

Your comment about "updated software" adds more to the "conspiracy theory" pile of information/misinformation as noted below.

When I asked "why not update the device and/or software and offer it in aftermarket format?", the agent at EMI responded, "we don't have the source code".

How can you develop new software when you DON"T have source code??? in light of the development that has been demonstrated/admitted to, one could seriously challenge the "we don't got source code" contention.

There are other discrepancies that were provided by folks who know/had relationships with some of the BMDC developers - including myself who talked personally with one of the developers.

Regarding: "....As far as everything else goes,,, your not the first person I’ve heard talk about this issue!!!! If you can catch my drift??..."

Perhaps I can. Perhaps if ALL of us who've investigated the technology and/or copyrights and patents got together, there might be a way to develop a mutually beneficial alternate strategy for developing and/or marketing a clone-like system.

There are DEFINITELY some interesting quirks in the C/R and patent law that, if properly navigated, could make BMDC dervied technology MUCH more affordable to the BPT owner and DIY friendly to the retrofitter. After all, Bridgeport DID sell the BMDC to others besides what they sold - see EMI parts page for example of outside vendor(s) who also used BMDC.

As everyone knows, legacy computer electronics technology typically get CHEAPER as it ages, not pricier. The BMDC should be no different. This happens until end of product life when production volumes go down and prices back up. Or, unless the components go out of production due to obsolete IC's or a focused intent to corner the market for what should be obviou$ reasons.

Someone someplace has the artwork for the original BMDC boards. It is surely on a floppy disk or HDD someplace. If someone didn't get paid or needs to get paid for the design/boards/artwork, surely, an arrangement can be made/accomodated - especially now for service. Nobody's gonna make money for technology that remains unsold.

It would be nice to have the SMT version of boards but that's not mandatory - 3 and 4 axis VMC's ran with thru hole BMDC versions before, they could do so still, especially if low volume assembly were easier/cheaper to make than SMT.

Heck, even a "kit" could work for some DIY'ers - look at what they build now. To think that a DIY version of the BMDC would not work is an insult to the care and skill levels of the avid DIY electronics kit builder.

Think not? Look at what the Megasuirter's are doing for/to automotive EFI and the M/S is about as complex as a BMDC.