Bridgeport Torq-Cut 2G-?????

[bherr]

I'm looking at this machine to purchase and it comes with the 4th axis already installed. It's a 1998 model year and was wondering what others though of this machine. I'm working mostly in aluminum and run production of intake manifolds for motorcycles. the rotary table would be great for what I need. I currently have the Shopmaster Tri-power and I'm not at all happy with it.

any suggestions or ideas on this machine as to quality, etc.

thanks in advance
Ben

[NC Cams]

A machine of that vintage should be powered by a PC based system with ISA interface cards. The heart of the system is the BMDC machine controller card.

The same card and basic operating system (albeit specialized for the particular machine) was used in the VMC's (800's and 1000's), TorqCuts, Eztraks (2, 2.5 and 3D) , X2XT's (3D and 4D), Explorers, Ezpath lathes (3 models ) and Ezsurf surface grinders. The machine control program is running in a DOS 6.2 or 6.22 environment.

If you are DOS and PC conversant, you can pretty much and readily service the PC side of the machine yourself. It uses garden variety hardware (good and bad depending on how 'clean' they kept the cabinet insides). The BMDC side does need a good tech to tune the servos every so often as it does NOT have autotune capabities - it is a mid 90's system afterall.

I'm a fan of the basic control system. It is no frills and if it comes factory fit to run 4 axis, you should be in good shape.

I'd be sure to have the machine demonstrate an ability to run under power and run in 4D to cut air before I'd buy it - just to make sure there are no surprises when you get it home.

The machining quality is going to be a funtion of the wear in the machine. The controller is capable of easily holding tenths in accuracty and repeatability. The overall machine accuracy, however, is going to depend on whether or not the THE AXIS' DRIVES & SCREWS ARE IN GOOD SHAPE AND FREE OF WEAR AND EXCESSIVE SLOP. Naturally, servos that are tuned poorly won't hold squat for accuracy.

Hope this helps

[bherr]

NC,
the Torq-Cut machine is 1998 and I'm also looking at a Interact 412 made in 1989, not 4 axis. the interact is $11K while the Torq-cut is $28K and the Interact has only 4000 hrs on the machine and was used as a spare. would it be smarter for me to get the 412 and then add the 4th axis later. the photos of the 412 show a very-very clean machine that looks to have been well taken care of. the difference of $17K goes a long way when money matters. Your opinion please.

thanks
Ben

[machintek]

The TC2 G means it has the DX32 control with a Control in a Box. It has the half size all in one industrial mother board. The G means that it has a geared head. Great for roughing steel, not really necessary for aluminum. All the drives and motors are YASKAWA ac type.
As far as Bridgeports go, I have found this machine to be above average in uptime. There was a TC1,2,3, and 4 made. Size goes up with number.

George

[NC Cams]

How are you with electronics/electrical schematics and what sort of time frame are you working with???

A 1989 machine is old enough to legally drink in some states and definitely "legacy" in nature. Compared to today, the technology is VERY dated. Retrofitting a 4th axis that is identical to the factory one that is/was installed will take time and money and lots of searching for what is probably hard to find/tired/used expensive or expensive new items.

I don't know if the Interact is/was 4th axis capable but if it wasn't, you're talking major retrofit ($8-$12 for an Ajax bolt in PLUS 4th axis incremental upgrade).

If the controller is 4th axis capable, you're still looking at time and money to add the amps, wiring, software and other stuff needed to retrofit it - if you can find the parts and, most important, a factory wiring diagram. NO 4th axis system I've seen is plug and play!!!! They do need wiring rework to affect the upgrade.

Unless you can get a deal on the axis/drive, you're looking at $4-$7K for the indexer alone, new. Add the cost of an amp and support wiring/hardware and you're talking $500-$1K easily. When you add the cost of software and whatever else, the cost differential is closing VERY quickly -- and the 4th axis isn't even operational yet.

Basically, it comes to this: Are you looking for a machine or a project????

If the TorqCut is factory equipped with 4th axis, you essentially bring in the machine, have a good tech do a setup and tune on it, learn how to run it and then make parts.

I went the DIY "I'll fix it/make it into what I want/need route". I still have cheap machines that are not fully operational (with a lot of time and money thrown at them) and I'm still outsourcing work.

Worse yet, I have lost way more in jobs and profit than I saved by trying to DIY as opposed to buying what I wanted/needed and simply making parts and money.

Hint about "looks"= A coat of well applied paint covers a multitude of sins. Some less reputable machine peddlers consider a repaint and fix it good enough for it to run as a "rebuild".

If you're intent on the 412, find someone who KNOWS the machine. GO SEE IT. Nose around it. Pick up the skirt and check her underwear. Definitely, ask to see it under power if at all possible. For that matter, do the same for the TC.

If you are bound and determined to have 4th axis capability, I'd bite the bullet and go for the TC based on what little I know from the post.

The cost difference 'tween the 412 and the TC will EASILY get eaten up in lost time and expense and lost work trying to upgrade an older machine that might not even be worth the expense.

I hope this helps.... Go see the machines. This will tell you much more than any discussion on a message board...

[machintek]

I was just on EBAY and noticed a TC2 with the FANUC 0M control on it. We had one at a show years ago, it sat in our wharehouse for a few years, we finally sold it for just about scrap price. It has been working flawlessly, but there is NO support for it. I cannot get ladder diagrams for it, nothing. Per FANUC, if the control dies, no one has the software to burn a new set of PROMs for it. There wre newer machines made in the same size with FANUC 21i controls, and these are current with support.
George

[NC Cams]

You'd think that with names like Fanuc and Bridgeport, support would be but a pnone call and a checkbook away.

Sadly, that's not the case. Legacy stuff can be hard to get support for. We learned that with our Fanuc 5T' powered lathes.

Got a deal on a "new" item (less than 50 hours operation) and two seasoned veterans of identical model/vintage that were part of the same batch. Wierd but real good find.

Blah blah Fanuc controls, world class service, blah blah.

Called them for prom-ladder info and/or replacment and got a "we never made that version of software". Yet they clearly have Fanuc P/N's on the prom chips. More discussion, still no support.

Finally, found somebody who knew something and it turned into a 'send us yours and we'll copy it' for $4000 per board. Copy this.....

With a bit of searching, we found a guy in Texas who could fix them, copy burn proms and get the machines back up and operational. I dunno if he can do ladder work but all I was looking for was to get the machines to run again and he did it.

Thankfully, there are still a lot of BPT service folks out there. But hardware support pretty much dried up when BPT went bust. EMI provides DX32 hardware support - at a price.

Yes, Hardinge bought the mill but they seem to have walked away from supporting any of the other machines that BPT made. Thus, you've got a great name machine that ran with the best in its day but now you are at the mercy of the aftermarket and/or the few good factory guys out there who can still offer service.

At this point, after all I've been thru, I'd go for a fully operational albeit more expensive machine with a functional 4th axis (if I needed one) as opposed to retrofitting an older one to meet my needs/wants for my business.

Then again, if it is a hobby, part of the fun is making do and bringing life to something that is/should be in a machine retirement community.

[NC Cams]

FWIW: that following thread is very close to what you're looking at doing:

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23800

Please note there were absolutely NO replies even after several months of the post being made. Thus, if you go the Interact route, you simply might be buying into an orphan machine.

NOTE: I'd suspect from my other experiences with Heidenhain equipment in my cam measuring machine, any service that needs to be purchased for any machine equipped with a Heidenhain anything will make EMI look inexpensive.

Moreover, if anything needs to be fixed in the electronics, the Heidenhain stuff usually had to be sent back to Germany and you'd be down for WEEKS.

Fore warned is fore armed.

As is the case with ANY used equipment, caveat emptor.

[Al_The_Man]

Originally Posted by machintek I was just on EBAY and noticed a TC2 with the FANUC 0M control on it. We had one at a show years ago, it sat in our wharehouse for a few years, we finally sold it for just about scrap price. It has been working flawlessly, but there is NO support for it. I cannot get ladder diagrams for it, nothing. Per FANUC, if the control dies, no one has the software to burn a new set of PROMs for it.

Fanuc are hard to deal with as far as ladder is concerned, after all they don't write it, the OEM or retrofitter does.
The 0 is still a 'current' control, I am pretty sure you can still order it, so you may have to get a retrofitter or third party with the programming unit, with this you can copy, print and develop ladder.
Al.

[Al_The_Man]

Originally Posted by NC Cams Moreover, if anything needs to be fixed in the electronics, the Heidenhain stuff usually had to be sent back to Germany and you'd be down for WEEKS. .

Actually Heidenhain has a service dept in both Canada & US. I have used them occasionally.
Al.

[bherr]

The exact machine I'm looking at is the Bridgeport TC-2G 4 azis(factory installed) with Heidenheim TNC-370 control. After reading the posts from NC, I really don't need the headaches trying to get the interact 412 machine right. My background is in electronics (20+ yrs.) so reading prints is not a problem. $28,000 is the real problem, yet I already have $14,000+ in oders to fill and I've just gotten started. Guess I have to talk to the bank and see what kind of interest rates I can get and payment terms. My full time jobs is maintaining commercial satellite systems for GM & Ford dealerships, so I can still make a pretty good living even without the CNC, but really enjoy the designing and milling part, plus providing a better quality and performance part than the OEM. I'll have to start looking for someone local that knows this Torq-Cut 2g. thanks for all the help guys and I let you know how it works out.
Ben

[NC Cams]

TC-2G should have DX32 control, not the Heidenhein - see Machintek's prior post.

The Interact is the one with the Heidenhein, right????