Newbie- TOTALLY NEW to all of this. Where do I start?

[chrisMSI]

Hello everyone. I am a new member to CNCzone and I am new to CAD, CAM and CNC’s. I am looking to get some pointers as to where I can learn more about the tools I have at hand.
I have been with my company now for about 4 months. We have two Bridgeport mills; a TC3 and a Series 1 V2XT. Neither get very much use. We do some modifications (material removal) on existing parts, but that is it. We have pre-written programs and we have 1 person on staff that is trained to turn the machine on, run the program and turn the machine off. If anything gets changed, or breaks, we have to call in a repair man. I also have TurboCAD Deluxe 15 and we are in the market for something a litte more powerful.
I would like to start learning more about these machines. I have started reading the manuals which have tons of information, but they seem to be written for someone that has some amount of experience with CNC machines. There is a lot of things I do not understand. I have found TONS of information on the web that has been of some help, but I feel a bit overwhelmed and unsure of where to start.
I feel like I SHOULD learn CAD first, then CAM and then the CNC machines. But, we have a need RIGHT NOW for someone that can operate and understand the machines and we get our programs from our customers. SO for now I think I would just like to focus on learning the machines.
Any tips or guidance would be appreciated. I am looking for web training, or books, or classes….
Thank you.

[machintek]

Please do not take offense but to be a machinist first would be a great help.
You would then know how to approach a job, how to hold it, what tools to use, and how to use them.
Then CNC is taking what you know and putting it into a code that the machine will use as if you were machining the part but a lot faster.
Yes I am old school.

George

[chrisMSI]

None taken and I completely agree with you. It would a HUGE help to be a machinist first. But I am not.

There are plenty of people out there learning to run (and build) CNC machines. There are kits out there for wood cutting CNC's for $500. Now this is a much bigger scale and a much more expensive machine. But the principles and practices are the same. "Knowing how to approach a job, how to hold it, what tools to use, and how to use them", applies to the $40k Bridgeport as it does the $500 DIY kit. I am not a machinist and I will never claim to be. But I am a smart guy and I have built and fabricated many tools and parts over the years. I have attention to detail and a natural need to do things the right way. I am certain I can learn this.

I am merely just asking for advice and direction.

[KevinV_MEI]

Stick with it. Do you have the manuals? This will go a long way towards learning how to turn the machine on, moving the axis, changing tools, etc.

Get a simple CAM program to start and do it's tutorials. Ask questions. Call the repair vendor and ask them if there is a person they would recommend to either work for you or at least reach you the fundamentals.

These things are where you start.

Kevin V.

[KevinV_MEI]

Also they look like nice machines, you could always sell them to me and outsource your work for them to me...

[Bob La Londe]

A lot of hobby machines actually allow for more mistakes: I know that sounds stupid put its true... if only because when you crash it didn't cost as much.

The best way to learn to make a part IMO is to "make a part."

Now I am one of those scarey not a machinist CNC guys, so take anything I say with a large helping of salt and evaluate for yourself.

I really can not advise you on high end CAD/CAM software. I know my uncle who was head of R&D at Donn Products, and retired from being a major R&D and manager type with USG after they bought Donn told me most of the shops they worked with liked MaterCAM. If it weren't for the price, that everything else is extra, and some non specific answers about types of milling I would be interested.

Anyway, getting back to your situation. The first thing you really need to define is the types of parts you intend to make with these machines, and the materials you will be making them out of. You going to be making AR-15 lowers out of aluminum? Light weight screwless vises out of titanium? Micro/mini lens holders for surgical cameras out of delrin? Simple press in bushings out of bronze? Exhaust flanges out of steel?

IMO, start with the part. Vizualize how you will be able to remove material in order to have the part you want. How will you hold it. How will it be moved and accuracy preserved when you do. This is one of those aspects of being a machinist first that is important when guys say that. Still we can't all spend 30 years learning to be a manual machinist before daring to feel upidity enough to run a CNC machine. We all have to make the most of the cards life deals us.

Now you need to learn how to make all those cuts. Get a good feel for how hard you can cut, and how much materail you can remove, and how good/poor of a finish you can live with, and how much tolerance (error) you can live with in your final part. THATS A LOT TO LEARN.

Sometimes I still just throw piece of metal in my manual mill and crank a cutter through it to see how it will perform before planning a cut in CAM.

Some CAM software will help you a lot wth calculating speeds, feeds, stepover, and DOC based on machine parameters you can setup, the cutters you have, and the material you are cutting, but if you don't have atleast some feel for it and some confidence in what your machines can do you will still make some very expensive mistakes. I sure have. Also, CAM software is expensive that has those kind of features. Not many do. I use CamBam mostly myself because its cheap, and they have a community including the author of the software who is a constant help. Its not necessarily what I would use if I had unlimited resources,but it works ok.

I mentioned machining first, and then I talked about CAM. CAM isn't second. I just mentioned CAM because it lends to learning about maching in some aspects.

The second thing to learn is CAD. I mentioned machining first because often you can design a great looking part that's totally impractical to machine with what you have available. With a few minor changes at the design level because you know how to machine the parts, and how to setup the jobs, and all of a sudden it not only becomes possible but faster and easier to cut. I had a designer for a certain type of part call me up one day and ask, "Can you give me some pointers on things to do for this type part to make them easier to machine?" I go out of my way to work with THAT guy. LOL. Anyway, CAD is a major learning experince in itself. Some CAD programs are easy to learn and use, but may have limited capabilities. Others may be able to produce impressive organic 3D parts, but take ages to learn. This is where you need to go back to the part. What are you going to make? If you are just cranking out simple exhaust flanges you can do with the basic CAD tool built into CamBam. If you are going to make realistic 3D injection molds of human anatomy you will need a seperate CAD program that can do that.

Anyway. I'm not even going to attempt to give you a tutorial on CNC maching. Just trying to give you an idea how much work you need to do and how much you need to learn even if you are very smart.

I think I am pretty smart and it took me over 3 years before I had enough confidence to make a few parts for sale, and have the confidence to give the buyers deadlines for delivery. You may be able to do it faster if you are as smart or smarter and you have the time to dedicate to it. There are some simpler parts you might be able to crank out right away like engraved name plates or something. I have a day job, (I own a communications contracting company) have a family, and hobbies (hunting and fishing) that take a lot of my time. Your employer may want you to do your regular job in addition to playing with and learning to make better utilization of his machines.

I would say that the first thing you need to do is learn to make some parts with what you have.

I would summarize that learning to CNC machine is a circular process.

0. Start with the part.
1. Learn what the machine can do, and vizualize the process of making the part.
2. Design the part.
3. Convert design to instruction code.
1. Machine the part.
0. Inspect the finished part.

And remember that some things may just be faster and easier to do manually. I have a little desktop CNC with a 30K RPM spindle. Its pretty good for 3D carving parts, but its horrible for drilling and tapping. I just create a center mark on the parts with it, and then I do my drilling and tapping on my good old manual drill press. Other machines with auto tool changers and wider range spindle speed and more horsepower could just walk right through it all. Its possible to make a bushing and other round parts on my desktop machine, but its usually easier, faster, and more precise to do them on my lathe manually instead.

[KTD1]

Forget CAD - It will not teach you anything about these machines or any other.

CAM will do some programming but the posts are seldom plug and play. If you don't know G-Code you're going to be clueless why things aren't what you think they are.

Before anyone in my shop touches a CNC machine, they must be proficient on manual machines. They must then prove their understanding of G-Code on a V2XT no different than yours.

Without an understanding of machining principals, I think you really should spend some time on a manual machine. I don't doubt you are a sharp person that catches on quick. I have self taught most of my knowledge on CNC machines but, I held a die makers certificate before I had ever touched a CNC.

IMO: Hire someone that has experience to get the work done. Learn the concepts and principals of machining on manual machines where you can feel when something bad is about to happen. Then step into CNC. It's gonna be a lot cheaper.

[chrisMSI]

Originally Posted by Bob La Londe The best way to learn to make a part IMO is to "make a part." I would say that the first thing you need to do is learn to make some parts with what you have. I would summarize that learning to CNC machine is a circular process. 0. Start with the part. 1. Learn what the machine can do, and vizualize the process of making the part. 2. Design the part. 3. Convert design to instruction code. 1. Machine the part. 0. Inspect the finished part.

Thank you for your input. We do not yet have a need to make any parts on a production level. We certainly could use them to make custom parts or repair parts for some things around our plant. I am working a lot on the TC3 lately. Not actually USING it yet. But I have gone through the preventative maintenance procedures and wrote a new PM plan for the staff to follow. It's sad to say but this machine has been a neglected over the years. It needed a whole day of cleaning and lubricating, 8 new carousel segments, 2 buttons, and new door roller (still have not found one) and the pneumatic lubricator was DRY. I need to order a maintenance kit for the coolant (ph, concentration, hardness…). I am also trying to find a new location for this machine since there are 4 sand blasting machines less than 20ft away.

We have a MillRite manual mill at one of our barns that needs some rehab. I am having that moved to my shop this week. I will start using that before the CNC’s.

I also just bought a Johansson radial arm drillpress with auto-feed last week for $800. Aside from being dirty it is in SUPERB condition. That will be a nice machine to have in house too.

Johansson


Cleaned up a bit

[chrisMSI]

Originally Posted by KTD1 Before anyone in my shop touches a CNC machine, they must be proficient on manual machines. They must then prove their understanding of G-Code on a V2XT no different than yours. Without an understanding of machining principals, I think you really should spend some time on a manual machine. I don't doubt you are a sharp person that catches on quick. .

I agree with you 100% and this is the way I am going to go for now. I still need to have involvment in the two CNC's we have inhouse but it will just me maintenance and managment.

As I said in a reply to another post, we have a MillRite manual mill at one of our barns that I am going to get brought up here. I am not sure the capabilities yet and I know it need some serious TLC. But it could be a good place to start.

Can the V2XT be used for manual milling?