Bridgeport CNC retrofit

[tar356]

Ok, time to start thinking about a power supply for the steppers...

Antek seems to be the brand of choice for most of the project/builds I've read about. Heading over to the Antek site, under 1500 watt supplies, they list quite a few. Is it safe to say that as long as I stay under the voltage limit of the driver (80v), I can choose any of the voltages shown? They list; 77, 73, 70, 67, 63, 56v, etc. They all seem to have enough amperage.

Thoughts??

Thanks,

Todd
Orange, CA

[Marty_Escarcega]

Ok, time to start thinking about a power supply for the steppers...

Antek seems to be the brand of choice for most of the project/builds I've read about. Heading over to the Antek site, under 1500 watt supplies, they list quite a few. Is it safe to say that as long as I stay under the voltage limit of the driver (80v), I can choose any of the voltages shown? They list; 77, 73, 70, 67, 63, 56v, etc. They all seem to have enough amperage.

Thoughts??

Thanks,

Todd
Orange, CA

What is the current draw of the stepper motors in the configuration you plan to drive them at? I would think staying near 70-73 would be fine. 77 might be a little close.

Marty

[tar356]

What is the current draw of the stepper motors in the configuration you plan to drive them at? I would think staying near 70-73 would be fine. 77 might be a little close.

Marty

This is the area where I need some education/advice...there is a lot of debate whether to wire the Sigma steppers in series or parallel.

If I understand correctly, the motors are currently wired in series drawing about 8.2 amps at 56v????....that sound about right anyone???

So, it seems that those using Gecko drivers set them at their max of 7 amp and roll with it. I noticed that "Schortbus" mentions he used a 56v power supply, another used 70v.

I would really like to see more of the various set ups that people have used (videos would be great!), and what sort of overall performance they are getting.

Thanks,

Todd
Orange, CA

ps - After posting this, I remembered this driver power supply combo...maybe this might be a better option?

https://www.automationtechnologiesin...stepper-drive/

[Marty_Escarcega]

This is the area where I need some education/advice...there is a lot of debate whether to wire the Sigma steppers in series or parallel.

If I understand correctly, the motors are currently wired in series drawing about 8.2 amps at 56v????....that sound about right anyone???

So, it seems that those using Gecko drivers set them at their max of 7 amp and roll with it. I noticed that "Schortbus" mentions he used a 56v power supply, another used 70v.

I would really like to see more of the various set ups that people have used (videos would be great!), and what sort of overall performance they are getting.

Thanks,

Todd
Orange, CA

ps - After posting this, I remembered this driver power supply combo...maybe this might be a better option?

https://www.automationtechnologiesin...stepper-drive/

You know what? I would buy one of those drives from Automation Technologies and try it on an axis. If it works, buy the other 2. Money ahead, no external power supply.
That would interface well with Centroid's Acorn motion controller too. :-)

[tar356]

Over the weekend, I narrowed down how I will proceed if I use the original steppers...BUT, before I spend a penny, I still want to explore the option of servos.

I understand the Sigmas have a unique combination of bolt pattern, shaft size/length and key size. Any servos on the market that would be a direct replacement, or semi-direct replacement?? Can I reuse the existing 1:1 timing pulleys? Maybe machine a long hub adapter? Aftermarket pulleys? Open to ideas.

Thanks again...once all of the final decisions are made, I'll get onto the build and pics.

Todd
Orange, CA

[Marty_Escarcega]

Over the weekend, I narrowed down how I will proceed if I use the original steppers...BUT, before I spend a penny, I still want to explore the option of servos.

I understand the Sigmas have a unique combination of bolt pattern, shaft size/length and key size. Any servos on the market that would be a direct replacement, or semi-direct replacement?? Can I reuse the existing 1:1 timing pulleys? Maybe machine a long hub adapter? Aftermarket pulleys? Open to ideas.

Thanks again...once all of the final decisions are made, I'll get onto the build and pics.

Todd
Orange, CA

Measure up the bolt pattern.
Make an adapter plate if needed.

Look at DMM Technology AC servos and their DYN servo drives.

Marty

[WilliamT4450]

I've been down this road before...

Is it possible to use the original steppers? Yes. Is it practical to use the original steppers? Perhaps not.

To pair the old steppers up with newer generation driver may not work well, unless the driver is specifically designed for the old stepper. And this is where you will have to spend the time, to do the research, and to purchase all the components necessary, and I might add, perhaps from multiple vendors. And in the end, you will have assemble it all, and do performance testing, all the while wondering if all the components will truly play nice with one another. And when you need to troubleshoot a control problem, which vendor do you address first? I've been down this road before.

I agree with Marty. The DMM stuff looks interesting. You can get a true closed loop servo system, well designed components that work well together for about 1500 bucks. You can install it and be cutting chips the same day.

Your machine has great bones. The linear bearing surfaces look great. With the ways well lubricated 750watt servos should easily drive your axis 1:1. Compliment your machine with better controls, and sell all the old stuff on ebay. You'll produce more and troubleshoot less. Certainly my opinion, of course!

Best always,

BillT

[tar356]

Measure up the bolt pattern.
Make an adapter plate if needed.

Look at DMM Technology AC servos and their DYN servo drives.

Marty

The adapter plate is easy, the pulley setup will take a little thought...maybe reuse the existing pulley mated to a new extended hub.

Anyone reuse the original pulleys on a new stepper or servo??

Todd
Orange, CA

[tar356]

Ok, am I missing something???

Trying to get the top pulley cover off of the head, and can't seem to figure out why it won't come off? I have the top bearing cover off, the 5 cap screws around the perimeter removed and the front variable speed panel removed...seems like something is still holding it...it wiggles a bit but won't come off.

Thanks...

Todd
Orange, CA

[tar356]

Ok, am I missing something???

Trying to get the top pulley cover off of the head, and can't seem to figure out why it won't come off? I have the top bearing cover off, the 5 cap screws around the perimeter removed and the front variable speed panel removed...seems like something is still holding it...it wiggles a bit but won't come off.



Thanks...

Todd
Orange, CA

Never mind...dowels pins were just tight.

Thanks anyways...

Todd
Orange, CA

[SchortBus]

This is the area where I need some education/advice...there is a lot of debate whether to wire the Sigma steppers in series or parallel.

If I understand correctly, the motors are currently wired in series drawing about 8.2 amps at 56v????....that sound about right anyone???

So, it seems that those using Gecko drivers set them at their max of 7 amp and roll with it. I noticed that "Schortbus" mentions he used a 56v power supply, another used 70v.

I would really like to see more of the various set ups that people have used (videos would be great!), and what sort of overall performance they are getting.

Thanks,

Todd
Orange, CA

ps - After posting this, I remembered this driver power supply combo...maybe this might be a better option?

https://www.automationtechnologiesin...stepper-drive/

Yup - run mine parallel at 56v - pull is about 6.5a during max accel / rapid way mine are set up. 2x accel and 100ipm max. Missed some steps at 120 ipm w/ microstep drives - dialing it back smoothed it out, improved finish and actually sped things up - so best result wins. Antec is the place for cnc power supplies - save time, buy once. They make hookup / install as easy as possible too. Those all in one drives are highly input voltage sensitve and seem to be a little light duty for heavy duty machine like BOSS IMO. Antec supply can easily handle normal ups / downs of input voltage and output demands of the steppers. Antec is also Made in USA, so are Geckos. Just my .02

The ball screws on x,y,z are 5:2 - 5 twists per inch w/ 2 balls (starts) = .200 per revolution. Fine calibration may result in 0.199874, 0.200013, etc.

[mactec54]

The adapter plate is easy, the pulley setup will take a little thought...maybe reuse the existing pulley mated to a new extended hub.

Anyone reuse the original pulleys on a new stepper or servo??

Todd
Orange, CA

This works, you can sometimes also find pulleys with a long hub that will work also

[vista_joe]

I'll be eagerly following your progress!

I just recently purchased a machine similar to yours (BOSS 5 V-RAM) that was already converted to run Mach3.
I've been working on reverse engineering it and creating a schematic diagram of what I have.
I have not been able to find a parts diagram either. That would be very helpful - please let me know if you find one.

My machine is hooked up and running off 240V single phase. It appears to be in very good condition and everything that I have tried works. I'm currently on an intensive learning curve with 3D modeling/CAM in Fusion360 (all new to me). I've managed to drive the quill up hard enough to get it stuck (had to use vise grips on the motor pulley to unstick it). I'm also new to machining in general so yet another learning curve.

When I look for a serial number on my machine at the front of the knee, I find "1B 104". I don't find any references to this type of number. Does anyone know more about this?

Here is a configuration list for my machine.

Machine type: BOSS 5 V-RAM
Spindle: Erickson Quick Change #30
VFD: TECO FM50 - Currently manually controlled
XYZ Axis: Original Stepper Motors with GeckoDrive g203v (3x)
- Power Supply: Original Transformer,5 capacitors plus resistor and bridge rectifier ~59 VDC
4th Axis: AMETEK 965922-101 Servo Motor with GeckoDrive g320
- Connected to a right angle gear box( with 6" 3 jaw chuck) via timing belt
- Power Supply: Custom using dual tranformers/rectifers in parallel ~36 VDC
Controller: BOB type simple board - single parallel port
- no I/O for spindle control or probe (yet)
- Power Supply: +5 VDC, +12VDC standard PC Power supply
Computer: Dell Dimension 2400 (Mounted on back of Mill)
Software: WinXP, Mach3, Fusion360
Pendant: iMach3 P1A USB CNC MPG Pendant

I will be looking at upgrading my system so I can control the spindle off/on/speed/dir.
Also plan to put a tach on the spindle and have a probe input.
I haven't decided on a control board yet - may play with cheap Chinese boards I have but in the end will likely go with something like a smoothstepper.

I'm looking forward to seeing what decisions you make as you go through this process.

Joe

[Marty_Escarcega]

I'll be eagerly following your progress!

I just recently purchased a machine similar to yours (BOSS 5 V-RAM) that was already converted to run Mach3.
I've been working on reverse engineering it and creating a schematic diagram of what I have.
I have not been able to find a parts diagram either. That would be very helpful - please let me know if you find one.

My machine is hooked up and running off 240V single phase. It appears to be in very good condition and everything that I have tried works. I'm currently on an intensive learning curve with 3D modeling/CAM in Fusion360 (all new to me). I've managed to drive the quill up hard enough to get it stuck (had to use vise grips on the motor pulley to unstick it). I'm also new to machining in general so yet another learning curve.

When I look for a serial number on my machine at the front of the knee, I find "1B 104". I don't find any references to this type of number. Does anyone know more about this?

Here is a configuration list for my machine.

Machine type: BOSS 5 V-RAM
Spindle: Erickson Quick Change #30
VFD: TECO FM50 - Currently manually controlled
XYZ Axis: Original Stepper Motors with GeckoDrive g203v (3x)
- Power Supply: Original Transformer,5 capacitors plus resistor and bridge rectifier ~59 VDC
4th Axis: AMETEK 965922-101 Servo Motor with GeckoDrive g320
- Connected to a right angle gear box( with 6" 3 jaw chuck) via timing belt
- Power Supply: Custom using dual tranformers/rectifers in parallel ~36 VDC
Controller: BOB type simple board - single parallel port
- no I/O for spindle control or probe (yet)
- Power Supply: +5 VDC, +12VDC standard PC Power supply
Computer: Dell Dimension 2400 (Mounted on back of Mill)
Software: WinXP, Mach3, Fusion360
Pendant: iMach3 P1A USB CNC MPG Pendant

I will be looking at upgrading my system so I can control the spindle off/on/speed/dir.
Also plan to put a tach on the spindle and have a probe input.
I haven't decided on a control board yet - may play with cheap Chinese boards I have but in the end will likely go with something like a smoothstepper.

I'm looking forward to seeing what decisions you make as you go through this process.

Joe

Joe, if you are looking just to move away from Mach, then you might take a look at Centroid's step/direction motion controller which should interface well with your Gecko 203V drives. There is a full schematic set on line, and in the set is one for the Gecko 203V
Acorn CNC controller, Step and Direction 4 axis CNC Control board with ethernet communication.DIY CNC kit
User forums are here if you care to read up or ask questions:
Centroid Community CNC Support Forum - Centroid Community CNC Support Forum

The Acorn motion controller can also control a VFD directly as it has an analog 0-10VDC output. It also has a true encoder input for the spindle, which with the Pro Software op
tion could allow for rigid tapping.
Acorn can not only control most stepper drives, it can control AC drives like DMM Technology DYN2 and DYN4 or others that can take step and direction control input.

Lots of options out there, just another to consider.

[vista_joe]

Marty,

Thanks for the input. I have not seen the Acorn controller before. It looks very interesting.

I am currently not looking to move away from Mach3. I think it will do everything I want for the time being. I have to spend lots of time just learning about everything - the Bridgeport CNC machine itself, the controls / software, fusion360 - all of this is new to me. I have a background in electronics and computer software but no machining or modeling.

I will make additions / mistakes but it will all (hopefully) be in the category of education for me. I've already learned that hitting my head on my Bridgeport Series II is not a thing to do! ouch!

I am currently working on resolving issues around tool lengths, tooltable entries etc. I've done lots of research / experimenting around this issue and it is probably something obvious but I have not yet identified it. The overall process works but for some reason I run into soft limit errors. I think a lot of this is due to the limited Z travel (I actually have only 4.25" even though the specs claim 5"). Trying to determine where to position the knee is a part of this complexity. There are also other things I don't really know yet - absolute/incremental mode assumptions in the call to M6Start.m1s etc.

I currently have 10 tools defined and entered into both fusion360 and the mach3 tooltables. I I measured the tool lengths using a height gauge and granite surface plate plus a QC-30 tool tightening fixture that sits on the granite plate and holds the tool holders very well.

I take the total height of the fixture and tool holder (with tool installed) minus the height of the fixture and put this value into the mach3 tooltable as a positive value.

I have currently chosen a spot drill as the reference tool. I use this to touch off to the workpiece origin. (I have to make sure that the knee is adjusted so there will be enough space for the longest tool to also access the workpiece surface.) This means that I move the Z axis down by at least 1.6" and position the knee so the workpiece is close to the tool. Once I touch off the tool, I then set the z axis home.

I've created a macro for M6Start.m1s that handles the tool change (thank these forums for providing access to examples). It moves the tool to a place near home where the tool change can take place, provides a dialog telling the user which tool to insert and waits for acknowledgement that the tool change has been completed. It makes the changes to show the new tool number in the tool number box etc. It currently assumes the next portion of the G-Code will move to the desired location (does not move back to the location where the tool change was requested).

Sorry to ramble on...


Thanks,
Joe

[davek0974]

Marty,

I currently have 10 tools defined and entered into both fusion360 and the mach3 tooltables. I I measured the tool lengths using a height gauge and granite surface plate plus a QC-30 tool tightening fixture that sits on the granite plate and holds the tool holders very well.

I take the total height of the fixture and tool holder (with tool installed) minus the height of the fixture and put this value into the mach3 tooltable as a positive value.

I have currently chosen a spot drill as the reference tool. I use this to touch off to the workpiece origin. (I have to make sure that the knee is adjusted so there will be enough space for the longest tool to also access the workpiece surface.) This means that I move the Z axis down by at least 1.6" and position the knee so the workpiece is close to the tool. Once I touch off the tool, I then set the z axis home.

Yes the knee and limited Z is a PITA on a BP, thats why i'm slowly working on modifying my conversion to send tool length offsets to the knee

I don't subtract anything when measuring tools - I use a Haimer 3d Probe for work co-ordinate setting - this is tool 100 on my rack and a home-made tool height setter but your method will work too. I place the probe in my setter and read its height - this then goes into Mach's table. Then its a simple matter of reading the heights of each tool in the setter and loading them into the table in Mach, no subtraction is done.

On a job, I call tool 100 manually and set my axis zeroes - from that point on all tool heights work nicely as long as they don't fall foul of the limited z axis

To check that the job will actually run, I load the longest tool, usually the probe, and lower the Z axis about 30mm (my retract is set to 25mm in CAM) then i set the shortest tool, call its number manually and check that the Z axis can actually go that far - it's a balancing act and i had to buy short drills, short and long ER30 chucks etc just to make things work.


Oh, and when testing it all out the first time, I used bits of straight wire, like coat-hanger wire instead of tools, that way if i get it wrong the wire just bends and no damage.

[vista_joe]

Davek0974,

Let me know of your progress with the idea of sending tool length offsets to the knee - that sounds like a great project!

If I can eventually figure out how to drill/mill a hole in my granite surface plate for the QC-30 holders to go through, I can do a direct measurement without the subtraction. However, I currently just setup an Excel spreadsheet so I can enter the measured values and the spreadsheet does the subtraction for me - reducing the possibilites for errors. I still have to copy the entries into the Mach3 tooltable. I've actually written three macros that I use to import/export/clear the values in the tooltable so I can use a standard editor (I use sublime text - which can do g-code,vb, etc. highlighting) to enter the values then import into Mach3.

You mentioned ER30 chucks - I'm not familiar with that. Did you mean ER-32?

Thanks for the suggestion regarding using wire instead of tools for the initial testing. I've been trying to run everything on a version of Mach3 that is not connected to the Mill - with soft limits enabled. This is working to some degree but I cannot see the height of the tools very well. I thought the Z-bar on the toolpath tab would help but it doesn't appear to work properly (it is usually just sitting at the bottom of the screen). Part of the reason for relying on simulation is that it has been too cold for me to get out in the shop to try things on the mill. I'm planning on having some closed cell foam blown into my shop when the weather warms up enough for them to do it.

I'll eventually implement things like the probe - but there are no unused inputs with the hardware I currently have. I've purchased some Chinese boards that I can use for more inputs but that means wait for warmer weather.

I've noticed that some of my tool holders fit the QC-30 chuck very easily while others seem to not seat enough for the nut to close. They look the same to the naked eye (same shars part number) so I'll have to do some measurements to figure out what is preventing them from seating properly. I initially thought this was because I just didn't understand how to put the holders in the QC-30 chuck. However, it seems it is actually due to something on some specific holders.

[davek0974]

Yes it sounds like a good idea and has been done before of course, my main concern is repeatability, time will tell on that one.

There should still be no need for math on the lengths, as long as Mach knows what length your Z setting probe is (in my case T100) then once the z axis is zeroed all other tools are relative to the length of the probe tool, no subtraction needed.

Yes ER32 They are not brilliant as it still relies on seating on the taper and not a reference face - if there is any difference in taper (quite possible with the chinese ER32's i have) then the tools will not sit at the same height as they did in the tool setter. The next best option is the Tormach TTS system as this does have a flat register for tool location but (my main worry) is that there is not so much meat in the tool holders for the spindle collet to grip and there are reports of them pulling out on heavy cuts - another 'but' is that Bridgeports and heavy cuts don't go together anyway so maybe it would work??

[vmax549]

QC30 holders have a specific flange thickness. NMTB30 holders can vary a great deal on flange thickness as they do not depend on teh flange to mount teh tool holder. Some are too thin and some too thick to work properly in a QC30 spindle.

Just a thought, (;-) TP

[Retiberi]

I'll be eagerly following your progress!

I just recently purchased a machine similar to yours (BOSS 5 V-RAM) that was already converted to run Mach3.
I've been working on reverse engineering it and creating a schematic diagram of what I have.
I have not been able to find a parts diagram either. That would be very helpful - please let me know if you find one.

My machine is hooked up and running off 240V single phase. It appears to be in very good condition and everything that I have tried works. I'm currently on an intensive learning curve with 3D modeling/CAM in Fusion360 (all new to me). I've managed to drive the quill up hard enough to get it stuck (had to use vise grips on the motor pulley to unstick it). I'm also new to machining in general so yet another learning curve.

When I look for a serial number on my machine at the front of the knee, I find "1B 104". I don't find any references to this type of number. Does anyone know more about this?

Here is a configuration list for my machine.

Machine type: BOSS 5 V-RAM
Spindle: Erickson Quick Change #30
VFD: TECO FM50 - Currently manually controlled
XYZ Axis: Original Stepper Motors with GeckoDrive g203v (3x)
- Power Supply: Original Transformer,5 capacitors plus resistor and bridge rectifier ~59 VDC
4th Axis: AMETEK 965922-101 Servo Motor with GeckoDrive g320
- Connected to a right angle gear box( with 6" 3 jaw chuck) via timing belt
- Power Supply: Custom using dual tranformers/rectifers in parallel ~36 VDC
Controller: BOB type simple board - single parallel port
- no I/O for spindle control or probe (yet)
- Power Supply: +5 VDC, +12VDC standard PC Power supply
Computer: Dell Dimension 2400 (Mounted on back of Mill)
Software: WinXP, Mach3, Fusion360
Pendant: iMach3 P1A USB CNC MPG Pendant

I will be looking at upgrading my system so I can control the spindle off/on/speed/dir.
Also plan to put a tach on the spindle and have a probe input.
I haven't decided on a control board yet - may play with cheap Chinese boards I have but in the end will likely go with something like a smoothstepper.

I'm looking forward to seeing what decisions you make as you go through this process.

Joe

Hello. I need some help with my BP Boss 5 machine, I'm getting a 60001 flash on the control then no digits, I can move all axis and spindle forward and reverse. Control will not accept an th input. Please help