Boss 5 to Mach 3 electrical help needed


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Thread: Boss 5 to Mach 3 electrical help needed

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    Default Boss 5 to Mach 3 electrical help needed

    I am starting to convert my mill and have the fiollowing components

    Mach3 on a desktop computer
    keling drives. # KL-11080
    mach 3 breakout board purchased from ebay
    original Sigma steppers

    I am a Machinist/Programmer by trade and not an electrician, so I am learning as I go. I have done a fair amount of home electrical work wiring the shop I built a couple years ago as well as small projects here and there. So I know a little, but electronics is new territory for me.

    I connected a drive to a motor and wired the drive to the parallel port on the computer and got the X axis to move, but it only moves in one direction. I just wanted to make sure I would be able to get that far. Now I need to figure out how much of the electronics I can remove from both cabinets and how to power everything.

    I have read a lot of threads here and on other forums. I am getting an understanding of the process, but have some questions.

    Can I just rip off the control cabinet with the reader, drives, and power supply? If so, how do I control the spindle now?
    Also, do I just remove the three transformers in the power cabinet?I assume those were for the old drive.
    I would prefer to put everything in one cabinet. I have seen this done on threads here, but haven't seen clear information on the power side.

    From what I have gathered so far is that it is wise to use the BOB and that it needs 5v to it to control the drives, is this correct? And I know the drives have their own power supply, so I just need 120v to each one. Can I get that from the main transformer?

    I have also seen where a guy trimmed his main transformer down to a lower voltage, do I need to do that?

    there is more, but I'll start here.

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    Default Re: Boss 5 to Mach 3 electrical help needed

    Before you start removing stuff, it's better to understand how everything is supposed to work with the original equipment. Then you can design a system that will closely duplicate the original operation. Look at what exists, then decide how much of it can be used in the new system. If you have the original electrical drawings for the machine, that would be very helpful. Make new drawings and an I/O map ,a written description of each of connection points with the old and new noted. I normally use Excel to create I/O maps, drawings can be pencil & paper. You have to start with a plan before you start the physical work, just like you do in machining.



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    Default Re: Boss 5 to Mach 3 electrical help needed

    Thank you for the input.
    I will get to making a plan and sketch it down.
    I will come back and record it here when I g t that done.
    I figure I will document everything here so it's easy to reference.



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    Default Re: Boss 5 to Mach 3 electrical help needed

    Any progress?

    I have a Boss 5 that I converted over to Mach 3. I removed both the three phase electrical cabinet and the computer control cabinet and now run the spindle from a VFD and the stepper motors from a simple power supply , BOB and drivers...



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    Default Re: Boss 5 to Mach 3 electrical help needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve_Watkins View Post
    Any progress?

    I have a Boss 5 that I converted over to Mach 3. I removed both the three phase electrical cabinet and the computer control cabinet and now run the spindle from a VFD and the stepper motors from a simple power supply , BOB and drivers...
    Unfortunately not really. I did figure out how to get the motor to move both ways. So I now know how to wire up the controller to the motors.
    I just don't know what to do about the power supply to separate the old control out so I can use the Spindle and then run the new controller power from the power supply. I don't want to use a VFD since my upper head is rebuilt and I would prefer to use that with the 3 phase power coming into it.

    So I am trying to find an electronics guy to help me with that.



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    Default Re: Boss 5 to Mach 3 electrical help needed

    I did completely away with both of the large boxes on the machine and installed a VFD for the spindle and 110 volts for the computer control box I made. There were just too many old parts that could break down at any time , transistors to blow every time the machine draws a little too much power during a move and huge boxes that took up a lot more floor space in the shop. I put the machine on a diet and now it takes up the same space as a regular bridgeport mill.

    The control box was pretty easy, just a power supply, 3 drivers and a BOB board. I can show you mine but only for a little while because it's up for sale. https://houston.craigslist.org/tls/6228897889.html

    I am taking some more pictures and I'll do a short video of the control box for you...



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    Default Re: Boss 5 to Mach 3 electrical help needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarzan63 View Post
    Unfortunately not really. I did figure out how to get the motor to move both ways. So I now know how to wire up the controller to the motors.
    I just don't know what to do about the power supply to separate the old control out so I can use the Spindle and then run the new controller power from the power supply. I don't want to use a VFD since my upper head is rebuilt and I would prefer to use that with the 3 phase power coming into it.

    So I am trying to find an electronics guy to help me with that.
    Any luck? I've got a full set of BOSS schematics if there is something can help with. About 90% through own conversion. The reds are AC (spindle) and blues are DC (drives) - it's not quite that easy but it helps seperate the two systems. I figured it out, realized what risk it was to keep such and an expensive disaster waiting to happen (again) - ripped all of it out and started fresh. The cumulative downtime caused by OEM stuff so far exceeds downtime for conversion.

    My 2 cents - Find a vfd that matches 3ph you already have, it'll basically just smooth out your lines provided you'e not stepping up / down with transformer(s). They hook up much easier, more reliable, 1/20 the space and much, much, much less heat than OEM controls. Get rid of that Apollo era stuff - it had it's time but modern electronics are much easier to install / troubleshoot / maintain. Literally all that stuff can be replaced by something smaller than a shoebox. If you plan on using this mill - the OEM electrics won't cut it for long, if at all.

    Anyhow if need some photos / info from manuals / schematics send a note.



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    Default Re: Boss 5 to Mach 3 electrical help needed

    I sold my Boss 5 two weeks ago and bought a Bridgeport Torq Cut 22 to replace it... The new machine has almost the same work capacity but has servos, tool changer and full enclosure. The boss took up a little corner of the shop while the new machine takes up 5 times the space... But I needed the TC and enclosure so I'll live with it.

    The good news is I sold it to a friend up in Bryan Texas and it is still available for you to look at if needed. I sold the machine with the computer and software but less the control cabinet I built for it. I need that cabinet for my MechMate router table and it had far more functions than needed for the boss. My friend is making a new control box for it using the same parts in mine so he would have a line and list on all the parts you would need.

    Frankly there is not a lot needed. A case, 3 drivers, a power supply and a BOB card.. LIke ShortBus says, it really can fit in a large shoe box

    If you go to this site ( Mechmate.com) you will find a forum post where I show how my control box was built. that is the build thread for my Mechmate and the control box pictures start on the bottom of that page...



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    Default Re: Boss 5 to Mach 3 electrical help needed

    Oops



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    Default Re: Boss 5 to Mach 3 electrical help needed

    Quote Originally Posted by SchortBus View Post
    Any luck? I've got a full set of BOSS schematics if there is something can help with. About 90% through own conversion. The reds are AC (spindle) and blues are DC (drives) - it's not quite that easy but it helps seperate the two systems. I figured it out, realized what risk it was to keep such and an expensive disaster waiting to happen (again) - ripped all of it out and started fresh. The cumulative downtime caused by OEM stuff so far exceeds downtime for conversion.

    My 2 cents - Find a vfd that matches 3ph you already have, it'll basically just smooth out your lines provided you'e not stepping up / down with transformer(s). They hook up much easier, more reliable, 1/20 the space and much, much, much less heat than OEM controls. Get rid of that Apollo era stuff - it had it's time but modern electronics are much easier to install / troubleshoot / maintain. Literally all that stuff can be replaced by something smaller than a shoebox. If you plan on using this mill - the OEM electrics won't cut it for long, if at all.

    Anyhow if need some photos / info from manuals / schematics send a note.

    I do have the schematics. I don't completely understand the schematics they give. I mean, some components are labeled so I get that stuff. But some of it seems vague to me. I will take another look and see if I can differentiate the two systems with the red and blues. So that's where I need the help. A friend gave me a number for a guy that he thinks can help. So I will try him if I can't figure it out.

    i am running off a RPC that I have going to buck transfo Myers to bring the power down from 240V to 208V

    Will I lose power with a VFD?

    what type and size Power supply would you recomend if I decided to go that route? It would be nice to have a all new components as you suggest.

    Thank you for the suggestions.



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    Default Re: Boss 5 to Mach 3 electrical help needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve_Watkins View Post
    I sold my Boss 5 two weeks ago and bought a Bridgeport Torq Cut 22 to replace it... The new machine has almost the same work capacity but has servos, tool changer and full enclosure. The boss took up a little corner of the shop while the new machine takes up 5 times the space... But I needed the TC and enclosure so I'll live with it.

    The good news is I sold it to a friend up in Bryan Texas and it is still available for you to look at if needed. I sold the machine with the computer and software but less the control cabinet I built for it. I need that cabinet for my MechMate router table and it had far more functions than needed for the boss. My friend is making a new control box for it using the same parts in mine so he would have a line and list on all the parts you would need.

    Frankly there is not a lot needed. A case, 3 drivers, a power supply and a BOB card.. LIke ShortBus says, it really can fit in a large shoe box

    If you go to this site ( Mechmate.com) you will find a forum post where I show how my control box was built. that is the build thread for my Mechmate and the control box pictures start on the bottom of that page...
    It would be nice to have Servos on my mill instead of steppers. A tool changer and enclosure too, I'm jealous. My next one will be a VMC I think.
    I sure would like to see your setup. Do you think the guy would send me a few pictures?

    So it sounds as though all I really need is the power supply now. I have the other things you mention. The KL-11080 drivers just need 110V and each has a 110 plug for a regular outlet, but I want to be able to either plug them in inside the cabinet, or cut the plug ends off and wire it to the transformer. I'm not exactly sure how to get there though. Can I buy a power supply that will split the power to supply the 3 phase to the spindle and then also power my computer and BOB? Or do I need a power supply and transformers to step it down?

    do I need a control? Or can I just use the Mach3 interface on my computer?



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    Default Re: Boss 5 to Mach 3 electrical help needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarzan63 View Post
    It would be nice to have Servos on my mill instead of steppers. A tool changer and enclosure too, I'm jealous. My next one will be a VMC I think.
    I sure would like to see your setup. Do you think the guy would send me a few pictures?

    So it sounds as though all I really need is the power supply now. I have the other things you mention. The KL-11080 drivers just need 110V and each has a 110 plug for a regular outlet, but I want to be able to either plug them in inside the cabinet, or cut the plug ends off and wire it to the transformer. I'm not exactly sure how to get there though. Can I buy a power supply that will split the power to supply the 3 phase to the spindle and then also power my computer and BOB? Or do I need a power supply and transformers to step it down?

    do I need a control? Or can I just use the Mach3 interface on my computer?
    You need to separate the control from the spindle. A simple 200 dollar VFD will power the spindle and if you get the right one will also give you some speed control right on the control via a pot. See the video for the one I used.. Then drive your computer and control box off of 110. that way you can use a UPS to power the control in case of a power blip.

    Here is a youtube of my old machine.

    I'm not familiar with your drivers so I don't know if they are powerful enough. The Gecko 203s were just right for the machine at 7 amps.



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Boss 5 to Mach 3 electrical help needed
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