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Thread: Boss 5 to Mach 3 electrical help needed

  1. #13
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    Default Re: Boss 5 to Mach 3 electrical help needed

    The steppers should be OK if they're in working order - servos wire exact same way so don't let that hold you up. They need 56VDC and up to 8 amps. Got mine at 7.

    To find spindle lines - follow connection from backside of motor into cabinet. There should be numbers on them, find on schematic(s) and that will guide you through the system. Or get rid of all that stuff and connect a VFD on cable to spindle. **See edit2** If running RPC to get 240 3phase then stepping down to 208 3ph -ant to step sin might wgle phase 240 to 208 and use VFD that has a 200-240 single phase in - it will put out exactly what goes in but add 3rd leg **See edit2***. Essentially the RPC is extra equipment in this setup.

    No need for additional power supply if using 1180 drives - use 120v already available - likely need a 120 line for PC, just use that. If using RPC there is no neutral - pulling 120v from that is risky at best. If there are lights / outlets with 120 - just tap into that however works best for you - hard wired to extension cord w/ surge strip - many options for this.

    Any 5v or 12v power needs for ESS / BOB may be pulled from your PC power supply. Example - find flopply drive connection it'll have both Red + black = 5v / yellow + black = 12v. ESS(5v) and BOB(12v) will get power from here. Your MACH is what integrates spindle and axis controls - really the two systems are individual but share a BOB.

    I'm setup with with ESS / C62 board to KL2283 drives - so I do as described except with 220. (220, 221 whatever it takes. Bonus if know where that haha comes from)

    For various reasons I wired mine as 5 individual parts, each is switched and isolated from others - Spindle / Axis / PC / Way Lube / Fans. I use vortex tube / compressed air for chips so I didn't bother with mist / coolant.

    EDIT - CNC4PC makes an adapter C34KL ($3.50per) for Keling drives so can plug in via eternet from BOB if there, partly why I got C62, Drives, VFD, Limits may be connected via RJ45. Makes what can be confusing pretty simple.

    Edit2 - If looking at VFD's look at the tag. One like this is what you'd likely be looking for
    http://www.plchardware.com/plch_imag...17_07_56_b.jpg

    - didn't do any research on this particular model but looks like out voltage may be set to anything from 0 to input voltage. Scrapping need for step down xformer - just hook up 220v setup per manual and get required 3ph out to motor. Something to maybe look into.

    All I can say is when purchasing a VFD - make sure it either has the manual or manual located and downloaded BEFORE buying it. Electrical brands you've heard of before are usually safest bet.

    Last edited by SchortBus; 08-11-2017 at 03:17 PM.


  2. #14
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    Default Re: Boss 5 to Mach 3 electrical help needed

    As FYI - received C34KL adapters today, they did not fit the 2283. Likely wouldn't fit the 1180 either. The pin inputs on chip are too wide. That was a bummer.



  3. #15
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    Default Re: Boss 5 to Mach 3 electrical help needed

    Ok, so it sounds like you both highly recomend a VFD. So will it produce the same amount of power either way? I will look at VFD's now.
    So with a VFD I can just run 220 to it and skip the RPC and buck/boost transformers, right? Now I wish I didn't buy the buck transformers, those things were about $300. Maybe I can sell them.

    I have the bob, so it also sounds like an ESS Is a good option too. What is the difference between the two. I don't quite understand that.

    I don't have a floppy drive in the computer I am using. How about a USB port? Will that work supply the 5V or 12V?

    thats a bummer about that adapter not working.

    BTW, I liked Michael Keaton in Mr. Mom.

    Is it possible to control the RPM with Mach 3?

    I appreciate all the help from you guys. Thank you



  4. #16
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    Default Re: Boss 5 to Mach 3 electrical help needed

    ESS and BOB go together like peas and carrots. There is more than one way to do this, but many users of Mach use the warp 9 ESS - check out CNC4PC. I chose ESS, that connects directly to BOB (C62).

    Crack open PC - there will be at least one set of unused connections coming from the power supply - the smallest one at end of the line is usually the floppy (even if PC doesn't have a floppy). If not any SATA has red / yellow / GRD too. Basically you need a red wire (5v) / yellow wire (12v) and two blacks (GRD). I snipped the connector off and spliced / soldered extensions out to a terminal block for 5v / 12v power. Connect ethernet from PC to ESS, the 5v powers ESS / 12v powers BOB. USB doesn't supply enough voltage - for this setup. FYI - after you yank all that stuff out of cabinets, you'll have plenty of terminal strips handy. Use them. If lucky an electronics supply in town has the connection inside PC instead of splicing (mine didn't).

    I use Mach4 - but yes Mach an interface for spindle RPM / direction. BOB sends signals to the VFD. VFD actuates spindle. Depending on VFD, external relay may be required for F/R, H/L and reset. There is likely one you can use in the axis control cabinet if needed. Or if have the orginal bridgeport controls - there is a slew of switches / buttons can use to set up same thing if relay is confusing.



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    Default Re: Boss 5 to Mach 3 electrical help needed

    After spending a little time with 2283 drives. be sure to check the voltage on line intending to use your Keling drives. When they say 120v - they mean 120v, not 121, 122, etc. The 2283 claims to accept 80-250vac on device but thats quite an overstatement at best - if in the States that device will require 120v. Considering other options for drivers.



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    Default Re: Boss 5 to Mach 3 electrical help needed

    I will check the line voltage to make sure when I get that far.

    i spent a couple evenings after work removing a few things. I have removed th 3 reactors for the axis drivers. Removed all the cards. And have remove wires associated with the reactors. I am still able to operate the spindle. I am now trying to pare it down further. IM slowly figuring out the schematics. Should I be able to get rid of the logic power supply? It seems as though maybe the limit switches may be in series? And I need to track down all the wires with that and move them out of the control cabinet.



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    Default Re: Boss 5 to Mach 3 electrical help needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarzan63 View Post
    I will check the line voltage to make sure when I get that far.

    i spent a couple evenings after work removing a few things. I have removed th 3 reactors for the axis drivers. Removed all the cards. And have remove wires associated with the reactors. I am still able to operate the spindle. I am now trying to pare it down further. IM slowly figuring out the schematics. Should I be able to get rid of the logic power supply? It seems as though maybe the limit switches may be in series? And I need to track down all the wires with that and move them out of the control cabinet.
    I don't understand you goal.... If you are going to use a VFD and another computer and drivers you don't need anything it the two cabinets... The VFD wires directly to the spindle motor and draws power from 220 volt single phase. The computer plugs into 110 single phase and the bob card takes all the wires from the stepper motors bypassing everything in the existing control cabinets... Yes the limit switches are wired in series and you can also put emergency stop buttons either in that series or wired to a pin on the BOB. That is best as you can then tell the program to stop the spindle.

    You should have very few wires on your machine when you are finished converting it. I went ahead and changed the shielded cables to the steppers while I was rewiring the machine... Can't hurt and you need to be very careful about introducing spurious signals into the wiring as it will drive you mad Shielded cables terminated at only one end, routing power cables away from signal cables and good grounding will make your life much easier



  8. #20
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    Default Re: Boss 5 to Mach 3 electrical help needed

    Hey Steve,

    My goal right now is to get the thing running as inexspenively as possible. It will be a couple months before I can afford to buy the VFD and an ESS. So I was just hoping to get it down to just the bare bones spindle going. Then hook up the new drives, Mach3 and Bob that I have for now . It appears that I can't easily separate everything out so I can empty one cabinet and install the new stuff in there.

    I looked at VFD's from the information above in Shortbus's link. The prices vary widely from about $200 to over $1000. I think I may have found one at a reasonable price, here

    PLC Hardware - Siemens 6SE6440-2UC21-5BA1, Used in a PLCH Packaging

    If that works I may be able to swing it now. But the ESS will have to wait.

    I have spent lots of money these last couple of years on the shop I built and the machines I bought. I'm not a rich man by any means, but I'm getting there slowly. If I can get this up and running I should be able to bring in some overflow work. My Ezpath Lathe is already running.

    I did buy a roll of new cable so I don't have to use the old ones. What do you mean by terminated at one end only?
    I will also follow your recommendation of routing the power and signal cables separated.

    Thank you for the help!

    Rick



  9. #21
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    Default Re: Boss 5 to Mach 3 electrical help needed

    Here is the link to the manual for the one I used http://factorymation.info/acdrives/7300cvmanual.pdf from Factorymation. It was not very expensive, had a remote mounting control panel and the three HP one worked very well. I would get rid of both cabinets totally! It's best to mount the VFD in a small box by itself just to keep interference away from the computer board and wires. The other components take up so little space it could all fit in a shoe box.

    When you run the new cables to the stepper motors you need to use shielded cable, 4 core. In the motor you strip back the shield and connect the 4 wires, do not ground the shield here. On the other end of the cable you strip about 8 inches of cable insulation and separate the wires from inside the shield so that you have 8 inches of separated shield and 8 inches of separated wires. Then connect the wires to the driver and the shield to ground in the control box. Cround all the shields from the steppers at the same point. If you don't need the total 8 inches of length just shorten the wires as needed. The shorter the run of unshielded wire the better. If you only need 4 inches use only 4 inches.

    CV7300 Series



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Boss 5 to Mach 3 electrical help needed
Boss 5 to Mach 3 electrical help needed