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Thread: Recently Purchased Series II, can i run it with a VFD??

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Recently Purchased Series II, can i run it with a VFD??

    Quote Originally Posted by Al_The_Man View Post
    It looks like a 1ph transformer, a pretty hefty one, I would guess at least 1.5Kva.
    You should use proper control practices and use the contactor for the VFD input side for the E-stop circuit.
    You can by pass the 3rd phase and modify the input supply for 240v 1ph, just use 2 of the phases for the 240v circuits.
    Why can't you integrate the motor control buttons to control the PLC low voltage input to the VFD?
    You can run wiring to a pot for rpm control.
    NFPA79 example.
    Al.
    All of that sounds pretty good, but you may be talking over my head. I would like to retain the e-stop functionality.

    So if i follow you correctly, i can still feed 3-phase off of my drive through the contactor that is already on the machine? So then would i use the drive for reversing, or the switch on the machine?

    Levi
    Proud owner of a new to me Bridgport Series II


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    Default Re: Recently Purchased Series II, can i run it with a VFD??

    No, the 1ph 240 would go through the contactor to the input side of the VFD, the contactor would be picked up/dropped out by the E-stop circuit.
    Do not switch the motor side of the VFD.
    You can rewire the control panel switches for input to the VFD for on/off fwd/rev etc, and include a potentiometer if needed for rpm control..
    There looks like enough room on the panel to add a switch or two if needed.
    Was the original machine fed from 220v or 440v?
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.


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    Default Re: Recently Purchased Series II, can i run it with a VFD??

    Quote Originally Posted by Al_The_Man View Post
    No, the 1ph 240 would go through the contactor to the input side of the VFD, the contactor would be picked up/dropped out by the E-stop circuit.
    Do not switch the motor side of the VFD.
    You can rewire the control panel switches for input to the VFD for on/off fwd/rev etc, and include a potentiometer if needed for rpm control..
    There looks like enough room on the panel to add a switch or two if needed.
    Was the original machine fed from 220v or 440v?
    Al.
    I see, said the blind man!!! So i can just run my 220v single through the original L1 & L2 fuses and contactor, then just use the corresponding load 1 & 2 coming out of the contactor to power the vfd.

    This is why you make the big bucks.....making it so people like me can see the forest through all the trees. Thanks!

    Levi
    Proud owner of a new to me Bridgport Series II


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    Default Re: Recently Purchased Series II, can i run it with a VFD??

    Your welcome!
    What was the M/C originally wired for, 3ph 440v or 220v?
    If 440v you may have to change the motor connections to 220v.
    You can tell by the jumper labels on the RH side of the transformer.
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.


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    Default Re: Recently Purchased Series II, can i run it with a VFD??

    Quote Originally Posted by Al_The_Man View Post
    Your welcome!
    What was the M/C originally wired for, 3ph 440v or 220v?
    If 440v you may have to change the motor connections to 220v.
    You can tell by the jumper labels on the RH side of the transformer.
    Al.
    It was setup as 220v in the shop at my work, i think i should be good to go. I will pick up some wiring supplies to night and see if i can get it to make mill noises!

    Levi
    Proud owner of a new to me Bridgport Series II


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    Default Re: Recently Purchased Series II, can i run it with a VFD??

    On second thought.... maybe i better take my wife out to dinner for her birthday so i can live another day to actually use my new milling machine.

    Levi
    Proud owner of a new to me Bridgport Series II


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    Default Re: Recently Purchased Series II, can i run it with a VFD??

    Well, I've got some great news, and then some not so great news....

    Great News: I got the VFD all wired up, and struggled through the programming, and the spindle is up and running perfectly!

    Not so great news: After getting the spindle all figured out, i started working on getting the power knee up and running. In the process i evidently let the smoke out of something, as now the feed motor for my table no longer runs. It was working perfectly before, the variable speed, the high speed jog, all of it. I guess the knee motor was unhooked for a reason. I am more interested in getting the table feeds running again, than figuring out the power knee, at least right now. I found the fuse on the left, on the below blown, i replaced it, but my table feed motor still doesnt run.



    Levi
    Proud owner of a new to me Bridgport Series II


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    Default Re: Recently Purchased Series II, can i run it with a VFD??

    Sounds like they knew something was wrong with the Knee. You probably toasted the driver or motor. Might be a bad driver for the power feed.

    Russ



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    Default Re: Recently Purchased Series II, can i run it with a VFD??

    That looks like, or very similar to a KB drive, Replace the fuse and see if it hold in with the motor leads disconnected.
    If it holds, try the drive with a lamp in place of the motor.
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.


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    Default Re: Recently Purchased Series II, can i run it with a VFD??

    Quote Originally Posted by Al_The_Man View Post
    That looks like, or very similar to a KB drive, Replace the fuse and see if it hold in with the motor leads disconnected.
    If it holds, try the drive with a lamp in place of the motor.
    Al.
    It is a KBMM-125 Drive. I did swap in a different fuse, with no change. This morning i was able to find a manual for that drive, and it called for a maximum 25a fuse, depending on motor hp size. The fuse that blew was the AC line fuse, and it was a 30 amp. What sort of lamp would you recommend using to test the drive with?

    Levi
    Proud owner of a new to me Bridgport Series II


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    Default Re: Recently Purchased Series II, can i run it with a VFD??

    levig,
    He is talking about a standard 100W 120V light bulb like you might have in a lamp in a room. You can actually wire that into the circuit with some jumper leads and remove the motor. This is often used in troubleshooting.
    Russ



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    Default Re: Recently Purchased Series II, can i run it with a VFD??

    Correct on the lamp, That drive is a KB SCR bridge drive, if anything has blown it is usually one of the 4 SCR's. the 5th is a power rectifier.
    They are available from DigiKey.
    Teccor now Littlefuse by make.
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.


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    Default Re: Recently Purchased Series II, can i run it with a VFD??

    Quote Originally Posted by Al_The_Man View Post
    Correct on the lamp, That drive is a KB SCR bridge drive, if anything has blown it is usually one of the 4 SCR's. the 5th is a power rectifier.
    They are available from DigiKey.
    Teccor now Littlefuse by make.
    Al.
    You are absolutely correct on the blown SCR, it was the 4th one from the left, very obviously blown out. I was able to pick up a spare complete drive from my work that they had kept as a spare part for this mill. Swapped it in, and the x&y power feeds are back in business.

    Back to the power knee motor, i believe this motor itself is in disrepair. I have removed it from the gearbox, and have it out on the bench. It turns smooth, but feels very stiff. I am no electric motor guy, thats for sure, i read that 12volts ought to make it at least turn slowly, if there were no load on it, however i tried that and the motor makes no attempt to turn. Anything easy I can check out? or should i just take it to the motor rebuild shop and hope it doesnt cost more than i paid for the whole mill. I did a little searching and it appears the selling price for this motor around the web is wildly expensive. Thanks again for all of the help!!!

    Levi
    Proud owner of a new to me Bridgport Series II


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    Default Re: Recently Purchased Series II, can i run it with a VFD??

    Is it a DC brushed motor?
    If so check the brushes and normally it should be very free to turn when removed from the GB.
    Any resistance measured if your meter the two leads?
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.


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    Default Re: Recently Purchased Series II, can i run it with a VFD??

    Quote Originally Posted by Al_The_Man View Post
    Is it a DC brushed motor?
    If so check the brushes and normally it should be very free to turn when removed from the GB.
    Any resistance measured if your meter the two leads?
    Al.
    Yes it is a 90v DC brushed motor, permanent magnet.

    I checked it last night, if i remember right there was 0 resistance between the 2 leads.

    I dont know how to describe it, but if you give the motor shaft a spin by hand, it doesnt really keep spinning, stops pretty quick. The inside of the motor is black and gunky as all get out. Would it be worth a shot to pull it apart and try to clean it out really good with electric contact cleaner? There is 4 brushes, however the leads only connect to 2 of them, i didnt notice if there was jumper to the other set of brushes or not. I had 1 brush out last night, but i didnt look at it that closely. It didnt seem like it was that worn down, matter of fact it looked like it hadnt rubbed against anything in a long long time.

    Levi
    Proud owner of a new to me Bridgport Series II


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    Default Re: Recently Purchased Series II, can i run it with a VFD??

    It should be a few Ohms, not open circuit.
    Usually brushes worn.
    The brushes are connected internally.
    Probably the brushes are stuck in the up position away from the Com.
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.


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    Default Re: Recently Purchased Series II, can i run it with a VFD??

    Al,
    I would think if the brushes are actually stuck up and not contacting the commutator the motor would not start spinning with a little turn. Sounds to me like the windings probably got hot and partially short especially if it is full of gunk. The brushes do wear and perhaps if they are only lightly touching it could be as Al suggest. You might remove them and replace them, but the motor should spin easy. You might also have some bad bearing.
    Russ



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    Default Re: Recently Purchased Series II, can i run it with a VFD??

    Either way, I would dismantle the motor and clean it up.
    Careful when removing the armature as once free of the bearings it will try and clamp to the field magnets.
    They can be chipped or loosened if care is not taken.
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.


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    Default Re: Recently Purchased Series II, can i run it with a VFD??

    Okay, so here is what i found when i tore into the motor tonight. It appears the commutator wore, instead of the brushes, see below pictures.





    Levi
    Proud owner of a new to me Bridgport Series II


  20. #40
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    Default Re: Recently Purchased Series II, can i run it with a VFD??

    I would have thought there was sufficient for it to still run, It looks a little to worn to turn it down, if you do you may have to undercut it, which to relieve a little of the insulation between segments using a fine hack saw blade with the set of the teeth ground flat.
    Later com's have a wearable substance instead of the old Mica that was once used that removes the need for undercutting.
    Al..

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.


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Recently Purchased Series II, can i run it with a VFD??

Recently Purchased Series II, can i run it with a VFD??