How to Use Z-Level Roughing

[Ed from NY]

I attended the webinar on 3D and both Z-Level Roughing and Z-Level Finishing -- very cool.

But I'm having trouble using them and I think it is related to selecting the geometry. I have tried different things and when it starts calculating the tool path it never ends.

I'm only looking to do the center pocket... see if you can figure out what I'm doing wrong... I have tried selecting the whole solid, selecting the bottom surface and the two top surfaces, selecting the bottom surface and its sides... all of those never finish calculating the tool path.

What is it that the feature expects?

Thanks!

[Ed from NY]

I think I figured it out.

It seems that the hole can not bleed out. I added the two blue blocks and it seems to work now

The geometry selected is in red.

[Ed from NY]

The Z-Level Finish (green) is not cleaning up the bottom.

Ideas?

[BurrMan]

Hi Ed,
THe Z level Finish only does "Vertical stuff. It doesnt do Horizontal planar cuts. You would want to use a slice, pocket, or equal distance for this area.

[Ed from NY]

Oh... I guess that explains it.

Thanks!

[WCIS]

Hello Ed from NY,

This is my very first post to this forum and I hope I'm not too far out of line with the rules to ask you of your thoughts of BobCAD. Your likes, dislikes, limitations experienced, productivity boosts you may not have expected, etc. I've read many of your posts regarding the machine project you're working on and I see there are quite a few folks offering you help such as BurrMan and Allen123. I mean no disrespect to anyone mentioned here, but it seems you're new to the software and the two guys mentioned may be veterans of the software or even BobCAD reps.

The reason for my interest in your experience is I made a decision to purchase v. 23 last week. I still haven't received the software, so I can't speak one way or the other regarding my opinion of same. I own an old Makino 3 spindle, 3 axis milling machine with a Fanuc 3000C controller. After setting up and wiring the machine I ripped out the tape reader and installed a DNC system. How the poor souls back in the day punched tape and proofed programs without pulling their hair out is beyond me. The machine looked new in terms of wear when I purchased it and figured worst case I would replace the entire control system - which may come sooner than expected. Plus I got it at scrap iron prices. It's been real money maker for me, and now it's time to improve productivity in the programming area. I'm currently using a CAD package to draw the part then translating the drawing by hand into G code for the machine. This has been fine until the parts I've been asked to mfg became more complex in form.

Anyway, if you or anyone else reading this post would like to share your stories about BobCAD (v.23 in particular) I'd like to hear/read them.

Many Thanks

[Ed from NY]

Funny you should ask because I just mentioned it in another post... http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showth...697#post662697

Here is what I think... unfiltered.

So far the features I found most useful are the advanced ones ("High Speed Pocketing", "Equidistant Offset", and "Z-level Roughing"). "Profilling" is also very useful. You really have to milk these features in terms of using them often and using them for things that they were not originally intended for.

I'm avoiding "Pocketing" because I think its approach is too unsophisticated even for simple things like making a round hole. I tend to use the features I mentioned earlier or I also have a spreadsheet that generates gcode for round pockets (ramping down and spiraling out).

I do a reasonable amount of gcode editing by hand to eliminate unneeded movements adjust speeds and feeds, add comments on tool changes, avoid coolant on certain operations, etc. How much editing... well with the advanced features not much at all, perhaps 5-10 minutes to remove extra movements. With things like profiling open chains it takes longer. When I use the pocketing feature it usually means major rework. I sometimes also optimize drill hole patterns (BobCad does not do that across features).

The Predator Editor Upgrade is something that completely transforms the software and I do not think anyone should be without.

The "Hole" features can corrupt your drawing to the point where the file becomes invalid or you can not post. So I save my work often and in phases. From beginning to end I'll end up with 20 files as I add stuff to it. That is also useful in case I need to refer back to an earlier version for other reasons. I suppose this will be fixed soon in a maintenance release.

The "Hole" features also do not allow for sufficient tool flexibility, like they always generate code for a mill step when you are reaming, etc.

I think the "organizing your work in an easy and intuitive manner" thing, is a huge and difficult problem for a CAM package to tackle.

In the end I split the final file in 2-3 that correspond to the machining steps that are not done in one go or because I want them as separate programs... for example in a piece with a lot of operations I could split the final drawing in bbcd files for "prepping for workpiece clamping", "drilling and reaming", "internal milling", and "external profiling"

I have not really figured out how to organize the whole process and I end up with a lot of files, both bbcd and nc.

If you are familiar with computer programming, it is almost like you need to organize things in modules and submodules and have version control functionality with branching and stuff.

Not sure how others do it.

In summary:

1. I like BobCad
2. The extra modules are "must haves"
3. It still has some warts, meaning sometimes (or perhaps often) you will be editing gcode, though most of my edits are not strictly needed.
4. You must adapt to the software. If you try to bend it your way you will live a very unhappy life

[Ed from NY]

On productivity...

It obviously much better than doing it by hand and the advanced features really give you big boost... however... it still takes a long time for me to come up with a part. Some of it is because I'm still learning to use the features, but other stuff could be made easier...

I think perhaps the best thing would be for BobCad to have a user lab where they observe users "in the wild" with the software behind a one way mirror or something... or have some guys/girls with notepads and chronometers walking around

Like when you need to check the parameters in multiple features you need to go into the individual dialog windows with all their steps... it would be much easier if it had some sort of spreadsheet where you could see everything from all features at once and then you could spot that feature #23 has the wrong feed, or that you picked the wrong tool for feature #9, that you forgot to adjust a ramp approach angle on feature #15 and that the clearance plane for feature #10 is wrong, etc.

I also would like a way for low level changes (gcode ?) to stick in between posting operations. Not sure what that would look like.

[mcphill]

4. You must adapt to the software. If you try to bend it your way you will live a very unhappy life

This is absolutely true! I had a hard time at first, but that is because I had to learn how BobCAD "thinks". It is different from AutoCAD, SolidWorks, Windows programs in general. It isn't bad, it is just different. I think many of the posts of complaints are from people who have not taken the time to learn how to use the software. If you have a chance to take the BobCAD training class with Sorin, DO IT. Also, got to www.cadcamtrainer.com and sign up to get the free videos there. Also, watch the webinars if/when they become available (still waiting for the Predator and 4th axis ones to FINALLY be accessable). There is not much "free" training out there for BobCAD, which is unfortunate, as I think they software is great - once you figure out how to use it!

The forums on CadCamTrainer are also good, and BurrMan posts there as well.

[SBC Cycle]

Funny thing about BobCAD is that some people really really like it, and some people really really hate it. I seem to notice that most everyone is on one side of the fence or the other, including myself LOL.

BCC V21 was my first real CAD/CAM package. I hated it at first because it seemed like it took me as long to draw something and write all the code as it would just to hand write everything straight from a paper print. Even if I got a DXF file from a customer it just seemed like it wasn't "CAM ready".

As a former G/M hand coder, I adapted to it pretty quickly and once I got some pointers from some experienced users, I was able to generate code in mere minutes on simpler parts. I wasn't too worried about the code or post being perfect because I could add things I needed easy enough.

Then we bought V22. I'll just say I wasn't happy and leave it at that.

I was ready to pull the trigger on Mastercam when I got a call from a BCC sales rep about V23. I told them I was not happy with my V22 at all and that I was switching to MC. I ended up going through 3 or 4 sales reps until I got to what I believe was the sales manager Brad. I explained my problems, most of which they were aware of, and told them what I was getting with Mastercam. So they asked if they could quote me a comparable package of V23 with all the bells and whistles and 2 dongle keys. I said sure, just put everything in writing (and I mean everything like the Levels 1-2-3 and all that). The price was hard to beat and would have been about the same as the maintenance program from Mastercam for 1 year! I had to give it a shot.

Six months later I am a satisfied customer. I won't even say that someday I won't step up to Mastercam, but the software does what I need it to right now. There were a few limitations to some features but with the latest update (100 percent free by the way) they granted me just about every thing on my wish list. The new scripting is taking care of all the little things that I usually add by hand at the machine. Now the only thing that needs worked out (in my opinion) is the tool database. My programs are perfect except that I can't get the speeds and feeds I want to "stick".

In summary, I like V23. In fact I really really like it. And I am "just a user", not affiliated in any way at all with the company.

[BurrMan]

I dont work for BobCad. I use it.

[Ed from NY]

The new scripting is taking care of all the little things that I usually add by hand at the machine.

What is this "scripting"... sounds promising