Problem- Why no upgrade option from V22 to V23

[segengineering]

HI,
Does anyone know why BobCad don't offer a reasonable priced upgrade option for people with V22 to V23.
I had a sales guy quoting me full price for V23, when i have V22 already, so in realaty i would only be getting a few changes to my original product.
If BobCad offered an upgrade for lets say between $50 to $100, then almost all of current users of V22 would upgrade, thus keeping everyone on board with the latest Versions.
People would upgrade every time with this option, after all its only a download, and then an upgrade to exsisting (dongle) lincence.
I think someone should approach Bob him self with this suggestion, after all there must be loads of people with V22, who just find this such a rip off price, to pay almost the same price as someone buying for the first time.
Another benifit is that you would keep most users together, and thus not having to provide support spread over all the range ie, V22 support, V21 support, V20, etc.

[KTD1]

I think you’ve got a good point with keeping everyone on board with the same version. I also think it’s a bit of a slap in the face that when they sold you the “old” version, it was so good and has all the wonderful improvements. Now a new version is out and this fixes all the wonderful improvements the never really worked.

I’m not trying to single out BobCam, most software companies (Windows for example) do it. But really, how many of you would tolerate a new television set when only half the channels work? You complain about it and the proposed solution is to purchase another new television. Software companies have been doing this for years and yet we continue to buy the new and improved knowing full and well it never does everything they told you it would.

It shouldn’t be a surprise when something works!

Alright, rant off.

I think there should be a very substantial discount for previous buyers. I know, I don’t like maintenance fees either but how much are we really saving when you get whacked for the full purchase price every year or so? I think there may be a few other advantages to discounts.

12 “upgrades” at $100 or 1 new sale at $1,200 might seem a wash but I think they are missing the boat. A cheap upgrade would keep existing users on the software. Before I spend a couple grand or so (I have 2 seats) for something better, I’m looking at what other CAM systems can do.

[bucont]

I just upgrade a couple of months ago. I ended up paying allot less than the advertised price. The question I asked myself is, At full pop, what is stopping me from looking at other software.
I think for at higher price it releases thier current users into the market to shop. IMO a mistake.

[sansbury]

Originally Posted by KTD1 I’m not trying to single out BobCam, most software companies (Windows for example) do it. But really, how many of you would tolerate a new television set when only half the channels work?

I run a small software company in my day job. CAD/CAM/machining is a hobby/educational project for me.

The main cause of what you describe are customers who buy on features rather than quality. I have never lost a sale because customers tested my product against others and found it had more bugs. I get calls every day from my salespeople asking "when are we going to support feature X?"

However, bugs do cause customers to leave. In my system, you access everything over the web (through your browser) and instead of buying it once, you pay an annual subscription fee. Every customer is always on the latest version and we "upgrade" it constantly with features and bug fixes.

AFAICT, BobCAD is doing pretty much the same thing except instead of calling it a subscription, they just arbitrarily rev the version every so many months and send the salespeople out to re-sell it. This works until you bomb it really good and people start to lose trust. I've thought about upgrading to V23 but why rush when V24 might be coming out any day?

Personally I like the subscription model a lot and I think it's also good for clients but it works a lot better with a web-based system, and CAD/CAM is one of the few areas that will probably be desktop-based for many years to come.

[NCPROG1]

Never pay full price. Wait a month or two they will call back with a better offer. What ticks me off is one week after I purchased v23 they called me up and wanted to sell me their "support" package. And three weeks after I bought v23 they called and wanted me to buy their "new" improved path generator. If it's so new and improved why don't I have it on the version I JUST bought?!!!!! Hope you all get to read this. It probably won't stay on here very long. Too many B.C. connections. I'd like to go one month without hearing from B.C.

[sansbury]

That's kind of my point about the subscription-vs-purchase idea. If you took what I paid for BCC, divided it by 12, and said I'd pay that every month to use BCC and always have the latest-and-greatest, I'd go for it in a heartbeat.

In my system, when you cancel our subscription though, you don't get to keep the software. So I suspect that approach would meet with a lot of unhappiness and sales challenges too. Most companies arrive at whatever sales model produces the most revenue with the least resistance pretty quickly, or go out of business.

[CNCdude]

Just a few things I will mention as I see this thread develop. BobCAD-CAM has always been a low cost system regardless of the amount of functionality that we have developed into it. In 23 years, have we made a mistake or two by not continuing testing when we should have? Yes. Have we always come behind that and fixed things so that any wrongs were made right? Absolutely.

For anyone to take a serious look at the amount of toolpath options we have made available in version 23 and turn around and complain about the price, I would only say that they should step out into the CAD-CAM market and have themselves another look so that they can see what is actually happening. Particularly right now. Understand that the more cash you have...the more glory in toolpath you can load up on. But here is my question...why would anyone pay thousands of dollars for 13 or 14 types of 2.5D toolpath when another company can accommodate just about all of them for $500? Our prices are low and on top of that we still run good sales.

Also, because we sell a high volume, we have to expand our support team as we go, training materials and trainers. That costs money. The support membership is an option, not maintenance or a "subscription." We provide updates to all of our customers free of charge and that includes any bug fixes as well. WE pay for that, not the customer and if you look at the functionality that we have added in those free updates, you would be impressed that we have given so much away.

CNC Dude

[sansbury]

CNC Dude:

V23 was announced a month or two after I bought V22, and it had a good number of features which I would have liked, including the 4th axis features which were in V21 and I thought I was going to get in V22. I actually started out looking for V21 because it had both lathe and mill but your salesguy convinced me V22 was so much better on the mill (which was all I was doing at the time) that I decided to go with that.

Am I screaming mad? No, I got exactly what I paid for. Just like when you go to the carnival midway, as the saying goes, "You pays your money and you takes your chance."

[segengineering]

Hi all,
Well now i started this thread due to the fact that i thought it was expensive for an existing customer to get the newer version, where some of the new features where things that was prommised by sales team in version 22, (but these features were not there).
To CNCDUDE, where do you get your prices of $500 from, (apart from this weeks special offer price), list upgrade prices for bob cad V23 are :-
Mill between $995 and $1500
Lathe $995
Art $995
Wire $995
Other CadCam packages may be more expensive original outlay, but you tend to get free updates to your software, and not a new version offered in a relatively short time since the last version.
if you do high volume sales then:-
lets say you have a total of 5000 existing customers
and you offered upgrade price of say $50
most customers would upgrade to latest version
therfore 5000 X $50 = $250000

Plus new customers paying the full price for there first version, and there after joining the existing customers upgradeing regually, after all you would still get the same number or even more new customers like this.

you would therefore have a really large customer base almost all with latest version, and singing BobCads praises everywhere, thus getting even more customers and thus growing the customer base even more, you could then bring out a new version at lets say every 12 to 18 months, thus generating more profits.

As for the claim that you have made any wrongs right, well V22 was one big wrong and a low upgrade price would be the way to put that right, any chance that some one would take that on board.

Also the claim about being always beening a low cost system, that may have been true in the begining, but now the are many others, which offer the same or almost the same, (and it would be more than adiquate for most users), just to name one try OneCNC, cheaper than the cost of V23Professional $3495, and it will do what most users want with easy.

And just to finish off for the moment, as if to prove the point that V22 was a big mistake or wrong, the BobCad wed site shows version V21 and V23 for sale, but nowhere do i see V22. Now that says ups V22 was one big wrong, (ps no one offered me upgrades or fixes for all the isuse it has, the just more to a new version and ask you to pay again).

Now if anyone from BobCad would care to chat about these issuse and maybe even offer a cheap upgrade, well now i'd listern, after all loads of customers also have more that one seat, (doggle), to maybe upgrade. and in this down turn in all the worlds ecconimays, bobcad could get the most benefit by trying the low cost upgrade option.

Keep the post coming, and please take the time to vote.

[KTD1]

Originally Posted by CNCdude Have we always come behind that and fixed things so that any wrongs were made right? Absolutely. But here is my question...why would anyone pay thousands of dollars for 13 or 14 types of 2.5D toolpath when another company can accommodate just about all of them for $500? CNC Dude

Dude,

Have you ever used the software in the shop? Please define fixed because BCC struggles with simple 2D pocketing and profiles. A work around isn’t a fix. I have to post the NC file twice every time I start BCC because it will post incorrect arc centers the first time. These problems have been around for at least the past 2 versions and yes I reported them.

13 or 14 types of tool path is the game BCC is playing. Too many new features is your problem. I would consider paying twice your V23 retail price for a CAM that would consistently and correctly machine only 2D contours and typical hole operations. Let me arc onto the contours at the end of an entity not where ever the software likes. (No, it doesn’t always start at the beginning of the contour.) Let me helical plunge into pockets where I want to without driving through the islands when the tool returns to the plunge position. Let me choose a form tap when I want a form tap and chip break cycle when counterboring holes.

Sound simple enough?
I bet I’m not alone. Twice the price.

[lowpull]

I have ver 21 which I dont use. But bobcad called and wanted me to upgrade to 23. I kept saying no, they finally offered it at 200. But I told them I still wouldnt use it so there was no use buying it. But that gives you an idea of what you can get them down to.

[CNCdude]

KTD - Yes I have used BobCAD-CAM software in a shop and so have others. What's your point? I was referring to our new High Speed Pocketing toolpath which by the way, if you actually used, you would be blown away and maybe change your tune. I am beginning to wonder if you would rather start a fight than actually load the software and use it. Pissing and moaning about prices will get you nowhere and is about as unproductive as sitting down and contemplating rocks. I feel like saying "Get to work!"

Look, if you have an issue with something that has happened to you whether it is a customer service issue or a software issue or a whatever issue, you can call me directly and I will do everything I can to clean it up. KTD, the features you listed are done and will be available in an upcoming release build. These features will be NO CHARGE for existing customers!

The form tool request will have to be looked at and I appreciate the input. That may take a little longer. If you have a problem posting code then you should call support and get it worked out. In fact KTD, why not PM me and tell me all of your grievances...every one of them. This way I can help.

CNC Dude