I would like to get an honest opinion from an experienced CAD user about V27

[bobcad guy]

I would not switch over to Bobcad to do CAD work if your used to using other CAD packages to do that now. While you can draw stuff in Bob it's very clunky compared to other products. I have Autocad and Solidworks and use them to do all of my Cad work and then import files into Bob to do the Cam part.

For the Cam side Bob is not to bad if your looking for a low end program to use. It's on the cheaper side and can do most simple stuff pretty good. The mill package is pretty good, but I am having a hard time doing lathe programs and getting the correct size OD/ID on our lathe.

i completely agree with you malish. i never really used bob to do lathe work though, so i cant say on that. if you ever get a chance to use mastercam, the lathe side is super easy, and very effective. my first part i made with mastercam on the lathe was a ceremonial bell, made of brass. it took me longer to draw it than it did to cam it, and it worked perfect. that was with zero experience at using the lathe program.

[BurrMan]

While you can draw stuff in Bob it's very clunky compared to other products. I have Autocad and Solidworks and use them to do all of my Cad work and then import files into Bob to do the Cam part..

Wow... An AutoCAD user who thinks BobCad is "Clunky!" lol...... What version of BobCad do you use Malish? I see BobCad guy totally agrees with everything you say here, but then again, he was a user of Maybe V23..... He doesn't seem to like the product much, but loves repeated posts in threads like these..... I agree if you are a solidworks user or are proficient with some other CAD program that suits your needs, then switching CAD is kindof a waste of time..... But, you know... Some people can Draw up In BobCad pretty good.. Did you know that?

For the Cam side Bob is not to bad if your looking for a low end program to use. It's on the cheaper side and can do most simple stuff pretty good.

lol... What?????? low end cheap? Sorry, but I have the 5 axis pro package.... Care to price that out? It has the same toolpaths that Many of the top contenders in the CAm industry are using in their system.... although, BobCad guy remembers when you could get a deal on BobCad for a few hundred bucks, when they were in restructuring mode.... Alas, those days are gone now.. But hey, they DO still have affordable packages for a shop that doesn't have bucks to throw around... Just less of the bells and whistles....

What's the cheapest seat of Mastercam you can get again? I forgot.....

[jrmach]

I don't think BoBCAD guy bought Master Cam with his own money.
Big,huge difference when someone is trying to give a review of BoBCAD vs. Master Cam.

[Malish]

Last time we were looking at CAM software the Matercam quote for 3 axis 3D machining with lathe came in around $11,000, Bobcad was around $2500 for a similar package, so yes it is much cheaper. To me Bobcad is like a hobbyist package, it's cheap enough for most people to get, but you have to deal with and/or workaround the things that are broken in the software, as well as deal with them calling / emailing you constantly to get you do take training or upgrade. Most profesinal places that have the money and do lots of programing use Mastercam or other more refined packages. At the end of the day you tend to get the same or similar programs.

The Engine Guy - I posted up my issue I have with lathe in the post "BobCAD V26 Lathe Same tool Face and Turn" and you pretty much dismissed it at that time. All I know is that the theoretical tool nose radius is changing on me when I do lathe parts. Sometimes it's the same as the tool nose radius I enter and sometimes it's half of what I enter. And yes, the Bobcad trainer (Sorin) always defined tools on the fly for the operation so that is the way I was taught, I never went through and defined a library. Maybe that is part of the issue, but even if it is shouldn't it be right even if you enter the tool just for that operation?

[Wolfman2332]

I do not post here, mostly lurking and find it a great group of knowledgeable professionals. I greatly appreciate the wisdom and tips n tricks. That being said, I have to pipe up about BobCad.

We recently went through a long evaluation of cadcam packages to upgrade and move to a 4 axis mill. I was astonished at the number of packages available. We use SolidWorks for design & enginering, and while price was not a major consideration, it is my money;-)

We are a small, 3 person tool & die shop supporting our production company. With great trepidation, we decided to get BobCad at the end of the evaluation. The conversion mentally has been tough - 15 years with one package wires your thinking and makes learning a new system difficult. However, we have had V27 for 3 months now, and are starting to realize its' full potential. While we do not have deep knowledge of the other systems out there like Master Cam, SolidCam, etc (that requires a lot of time and actual cutting), I can say definitively:

BobCad Rocks! Watch BobCad Afterdark to see examples of what can be done. While it Wire EDM is weak, I am entirely satisfied with the mill and lathe portions. It has integrated smoothly with SolidWorks, and as I learn more, I am discovering all kinds of neat things it can do.

Good luck, whatever you choose to do.

[bobcad guy]

guys, i know you want to defend bobcad, and thats fine. you have a right to express an opinion. but so do others. if needing to find work arounds to do simple tasks is ok with you, then thats fine. there is no doubt that if cost is an issue, mastercam, or camworks is more expensive. but like many companies like to do, they only think about cycle times as the big factor. i like to think downtime, rework time, having to proofread code for silly things like dogleg crashes, is an expense that should matter too. i know burr likes to say theres plenty of dogleg crashes in master and camworks, but its just not true, unless, you purposely set a clearance plane below Z's highest point. my experience ended with bob V25,or V26 so i cant tell you exactly how it is today, but i know 2 big things that shape my opinion. #1 bob will have multiple complaints about a feature flaw or problem, and not only do they not fix it, they offer a new release, and stop updating the older one, sometimes including the old problem with the new version. THAT speaks volumes. #2 is, i go too the mastercam or camworks pages, and theres hardly ever a problem being discussed, mostly post problems that need a tweak, its actually kinda boring, i think thats why i come here still. i remember BOB being so excited that the bobcad forum was the most used forum on CNCzone. THATS not a good thing, that means people are having tons of problems, and they have to turn to complete strangers for answers, possibly risk getting hacked by some malicious jerk either purposely, or maybe even accidently screwing up your P.C. i dont like down playing bobcad, and wouldnt even be now, but if your gonna tell me im wrong for sharing an opinion on different software packages, im gonna clarify my opinion. you can say whatever you want against mastercam, and i wont get all huffy and call you names, because, i truley believe in my software, and i'm not threatened that you dont like it.

[Wolfman2332]

Wow Bobcadguy, I didn't mean to upset you. However, I use SolidWorks a lot, and crash it daily - sure BBC crashes, but not much worse than SW. Additionally, SW has a lot of conversations continually going on looking for work arounds and fixes. All software has kinks and odd behaviors. I cannot speak to anything other than those packages I work in, and have to remain silent on the comparisons at the level you are capable of with your considerably great knowledge and experience. 'Nuff said.

[bobcad guy]

wolf, i wasnt talking to you at all. sorry if you thought i was. i didnt claim to be all that smart, but that everyone has an opinion on what is good for them. i didnt say a word about solidworks either, i said camworks. you cannot "cam" with solidworks.

[The Engine Guy]

The Engine Guy - I posted up my issue I have with lathe in the post "BobCAD V26 Lathe Same tool Face and Turn" and you pretty much dismissed it at that time. All I know is that the theoretical tool nose radius is changing on me when I do lathe parts. Sometimes it's the same as the tool nose radius I enter and sometimes it's half of what I enter. And yes, the Bobcad trainer (Sorin) always defined tools on the fly for the operation so that is the way I was taught, I never went through and defined a library. Maybe that is part of the issue, but even if it is shouldn't it be right even if you enter the tool just for that operation?

OK, point taken, however was the training you got before BobCAD introduced the "Tool Crib"system, which was if I remember right was V25, it is almost identical to some other much more expensive CadCAM softwares that I have used.
So my point there is if it is correct for the expensive softwares then it will be correct for BobCAD. Just IMHO

It is the correct way to do things, another point, you don`t say whether you can/do use the TNR facility in your Lathe control, if yes then you should NOT set a TNR in BobCAD tools, set it to 0.00 and let the machine control handle it, usually the best/easiest way because you can make adjustments at the machine to get your dimensions spot on and adjust for tool wear as well.
You don`t say whether you are trying to use the "System Compensation" within BobCAD, then unless you absolutely have to then don`t, again let your machine control handle all the offsets, if you are generating "clean code", that is without any TNR or G41/G42 then you will get proper repeatability that you can easily see on machine control screen

I am in no way trying to run down what Sorin does, he has a great reputation as a trainer but setting tools within the feature is definitely not the correct method if you have a Tool Library and a Tool Crib available, I have never had wrong code or wrong cuts out of BobCAD once my PP was setup to suit the CNC machine whether it be Mill or Lathe.

I actually once had a much more expensive software crash a tool on a fairly large and expensive 3D Mold due to a "bug" in the software so just goes to show even the expensive ones have some issues

Anyway, it`s my belief that if things are used the way they are supposed to be used then generally speaking there are a lot less issues.

Regards
Rob
:rainfro: :rainfro: :rainfro:

[jrmach]

" i remember BOB being so excited that the bobcad forum was the most used forum on CNCzone. THATS not a good thing, that means people are having tons of problems, and they have to turn to complete strangers for answers, possibly risk getting hacked by some malicious jerk either purposely, or maybe even accidently screwing up your P.C. "





One has more posts and one has more threads,,,using your LOGIC,,they both are Crappy

Your also giving "DATED" replies.Things have been changing rapidly for the better with each new version.
MC is 6 to 7 times more expensive than BoB,,,Using some logic borrowed from you,,that must mean it is 6 or 7 times better ?????????

"proofread code for silly things like dogleg crashes"

YeaH,that is unique to BoB only((are yu kidding me)) BTW,Preditor Editor catches those dog legs.


Download a Demo of BoB V27 and you will see many things that are the same or very similar to MC

[dertsap]

I'm still using v25 so I can't speak for the newer versions , I'm also a mastercam user at my day job . In 7 years of using the x versions I've crashed mc twice and that was due to my own impatience . BC i honestly couldn't count the number of crashes , but over time I've also learned how to minimize them , and most of the crashes seem to come from the cad portion rather than the cam . I understand that the cad has been revamped some so hopefully some of past weaknesses are gone .
Aside from a past bug which did get fixed (quickly) , bc has always put out solid code for me . I'm constantly loading new long running surfacing programs and I'm always confident to walk away and watch tv while the machines run .
I've had my gripes about the bc software over time and usually thats when crap has happened and came with a cost , but bc also has a number of new users after I've talked to other guys who are in a similar boat as me . I probably wouldn't recommend it for high end shops , but then , the high end shops can also afford the high end software

[aldepoalo]

I think it's important to understand the needs of the OP and what kind of work he is doing currently or may be doing in the future to help answer what CAM might be best for him. Really it's all opinion because now a day's all these CAM systems are very close in feature sets. The "best CAM system" is the one you know how to use IMHO.

In my years in the market I've heard horror stories from shops of all sizes about their CAM systems. It's not one brand or another, it's all of them. I've heard a horror story about every cam system I've ever learned about. Why do you think that is?

In this group as a BobCAD group you'll find our users stand up for the software. Just like you would find in a MC group or other... Our clients rely on the software to program their machines and make money. So yeah their are going to stand up for the software that makes them money. Is BobCAD flawless, no no it is not. IMHO no CAM system is flawless.

I would say over the years we've had our issues, and I would like to think we've learned from them. From my chair our system get's better and better every year. Over the last few years there have been huge mile stones we've reached. The future for BobCAD customers is bright.

Where BobCAD stands out is the affordability factor. You get more for less. I know, I know for those guys that just use a CAM system and don't have the foot the bill cost isn't a factor. For the small to medium job shop, MFG, Owner operator cost does matter. Is some cases it's the make or break point. This can be true for larger MFG's too. 5 seats of 5 axis CAM is not cheap, 5 seats of BobCAD's 5 axis software is a fraction of the price. So yes large MFG's are drawn to BobCAD as well.

Again the cost factor.


BobCAD's isn't so behind in features as some people think.

As an example, The OP runs SurfCAM right , well in their recent release they came out with "ramped profiles" this is a feature BobCAD has offered since V24.

Or MC just released drag and drop files to their CAD window, BobCAD since V22.

Or like in V25 where our posting is linked to the machine definition making it easier to setup multi axis machines... '


There are many CAM systems on the market, and all of them have their strengths and weakness, No matter what system you choose you'll need support and training. If you choose BobCAD you'll find it has more strengths then you might of though. Not to mention BobCAD is privately owned and expanding. The OP is running surfcam, who knows who will own them next....

Op if you interested in a one on one demo let me know. I would me more than willing to learn more about your company and how we may be able to help you.

[victorofga]

theres no ""bugless"" program..

that's only dream..

if one interesting about a program, then download and try it..

just because one speaks one language, and the other difficult, that's not the language error itself..

also, same example just because something used by the most people, doesn't mean the best..

let me give two example.. Russia built 70 year long communism... do you think 300 million people made mistake??

so today about 1.2 milliard people speaks Chinese.. so Chinese is the most popular... because most people speaks it... and probably the simplest... right??/


you also can make some effort, on the next match of real Madrid - Bayern munchen explaining the real Madrid fans why is Bayern munchen better :-)

this is what always happening



comeon folks

its always comes back programs are too difficult... of course all program difficult.. because you speak different ""language""
just take your time get familiar with...

[SBC Cycle]

A few comments from the first page from (what I know) to be experienced BobCAD users. These replies seem to be honest opinions, opinions of course vary.

Guys, pretty sure OP was a one post wonder.

You would need someone that knows both softwares well to give you an answer.Then they would have to be honest and un-biased.

I would Demo BoB and I would also request a "live" demo,,,and to get a real good shake,,give them one of your parts that you now make.
You can go here to view how to video's https://www.youtube.com/user/Depoalo...view=0&sort=dd

BTW,I hear people bad mouth SurfCam all the time,,,however I have no idea.Getting that honest and un-biased answer is likely not.

I just took a look at KeyCreator as I'd never seen it before. Impressive. Why dump it?

I need to clarify one thing before giving my opinion. Is your current setup with Surfcam and KeyCreator "linked" as in associative?

An important thing to consider about BobCAD-CAM is that the "CAD" portion that is included is something that you will use regardless of what software you design your part in. The tools are impressive but probably not as full featured as KeyCreator (I can claim no personal knowledge of the software). You would use BobCAD geometry creation tools to infinitely fine tune your toolpaths when you are ready to use CAM, if you desire to perfect your programs.

I just purchased V27 and just ran through the first example part in the Professor Series. V27 completely overhauled the CAD side and though it is still familiar to me I'm starting at Step 1 like a rookie should.

I would not switch over to Bobcad to do CAD work if your used to using other CAD packages to do that now. While you can draw stuff in Bob it's very clunky compared to other products. I have Autocad and Solidworks and use them to do all of my Cad work and then import files into Bob to do the Cam part.

For the Cam side Bob is not to bad if your looking for a low end program to use. It's on the cheaper side and can do most simple stuff pretty good. The mill package is pretty good, but I am having a hard time doing lathe programs and getting the correct size OD/ID on our lathe.

[MikeC8]

I've used v26, v27 3 axis pro at home for a few projects, though I have not used it as much as I would like. V27 was a huge leap forward to me as a solidworks user. I really struggled with the cad side of things in V26, In V27 I've made quick work of modeling up simple soft jaws, and making minor changes to my imported parts. I've had it crash a few times on me when making certain changes, and I often know when I might experience a crash. I've learned to save often, and occasionally just restart the program.

Recently I went through my tool library and cleared out all of the default tools. Then I added the tools I actually have, along with their tool holders. After starting another project, I came to find that non of the changes I made to the tool library took. I spent another hour going through it, only to loose it again. In the end I found that if I did the changes to the default blank bobcad file that first opens, then saved it, and closed out those changes would stay. I've found other quirks similar to this, that have their work arounds. But I still recommend bobcad to others, its hard to beat for the price and its capabilitys.


At work I have used v3, and v4 4 axis pro. I use it on a daily basis mainly doing mold work, and 3d surfacing on prototype parts. I love having the solidworks intergration. Ive had some of the same stability issues with V4 as I do with V27. The main issue I have that will cause the software to crash is editing the work setup point of origin after I've been working with the file for a couple of hours. So depending on how long I've had the program open, I will either save and edit my setup. Or save, close, open, and then edit the setup.

Tech support has been a huge help as well, I've had some awkward machine setups that needed some custom post work done in order to make it work the way we wanted.

[jcsb]

I retired 2 years ago and have been using cad/cam systems since 1983. At that time I had to time share over the phone system using MDSI. I can’t begin to tell you how archaic it was. Yeah, punch tape, sent to a printer to read line by line the code and make adjustments. PITA. Over the years I learned how to speed read code just to stay on top and not have crashes. There were no good ol’days. The first cad package we bought was Autocad, it had just come out. It was 2d and really pathetic, but it beat the old drafting board.

Time went on and I worked as a supervisor for a large engineering firm. Pro/engineer was in its infancy and it would crash all the time (core dump). You learned quickly about trail files. We were using CompacII for the cam side of programming. The complaint there was those on the Cad side were doing things inconsistently and those on the Cam side were having problems dealing with them.
Time went on and I was asked to investigate Pro Manufacturing. So, I went to their school in a Chicago suburb for a week to review. I might even have my report, but it turned out I thought the program had to many problems to have our outside vendors adopt Pro Manufacturing. Yep, the company had that much swing. I just felt it would be too disruptive.

Fifteen years ago I decided to go it alone and start my own job shop. Since I already knew who my main customer would be and what cad package they were using I decide to audition cam packages. At the time there were only 2 companies that could take a Pro/engineer part file directly into the cam package and would be parametric. Pro/manufacturing and Edgecam. Well, you know how I felt about Pro/manufacturing. So, it was Edgecam.

I purchased training for 3 days on site. After about ½ of the first day, I had to ask the guy leave. I realized with my past experience I would be better served just learning it myself. Throughout my 15 years in business I have had countless salesman wanting to make me switch. They always wanted to have their resident expert show me the bells and whistles of their software. They would always ask if I would send them a file and they would program it to show what they could do. I always said no, come on in and sit down and I’ll import a file and then let’s go through it. Well this was always a very humbling experience for whoever came in. Like I told them I don’t get a week to play with the part to see how to program it, I need to program when we get the purchase order.

I kept Edgecam maintenance until the last 2 years I was in business just so I could keep up to date on Pro/engineer . The salesman for Edgecam was amazed at what we could do with the product. As I noted to him it was done out of necessity. You learn how to go around problems (and they have them) because you had a deadline to meet. I would tell anyone starting to get something that is user friendly, has reasonable support, good back plotter, capable of tweaking a post reasonably easy, and cost effective for your application and future, especially future. What you learn today will either help or hinder you later. If I had to start today I might go a totally different rout. I might note I’ve used Mastercam, Surfcam, Espirit, and several others.

[allenp]

What is the difference between bob cad standard and bob cad pro?
Is the 4 axis programming simultaneous programming for bobcad?

[Wolfman2332]

Just briefly (suggest you talk to a BC sales guy for full info), pro includes adaptive cutting, which is great for end mill life. In addition, I believe that in is also full 3 axis machining. We have 4 axis pro with simulation, and it is wonderful. If you find you can't achieve what you want, they can upgrade your package for additional dollars - negotiate - the seem to like that. We have had it for a year now (V28), and found it to be very stable. It is extraordinarily effect, and we love it. Have 4 seats, and my tool and die people do almost all the programming. It is very easy once you get the hang of it. Tkae the class - it saves a lot of time.

[Malish]

What is the difference between bob cad standard and bob cad pro?
Is the 4 axis programming simultaneous programming for bobcad?

I believe the standard only has 2D tool paths (and maybe a few basic 3D ones) and the pro has all the 3D tool paths. They used to have a really nice chart on the website that listed the differences, but I don't see that there anymore. If you need to do 3D tool paths then you should get the pro version, since the Z Level Roughing / Z Level Finishing, Advanced Roughing, and Equidistant Offset tool paths seem to be much better and easier to make work for most 3D parts I have done.

Like Wolfman, we have 4 axis pro with the lathe package as well. For the most part it does everything I need it to. I can do 2D profiles and pockets with ease, but I usually have issues when I do 3D tool paths. For instance last week I did a simple sloped cavity in a ring and tried to use the spiral tool path, it worked but would cross over inside my part even though I had a boundary set. I ended up having to use the Equidistant Offset to get it to work.

I also still have Bobcad version 20 installed on my PC as well. I code a lot by hand, and the old version is often handy when you just want to get the command for a circle or other simple things.

[shaunwil]

I've been designing products in Solidedge for the last 11yrs and we bought a basic 3 axis machine about 18 months ago. I decided on Bobcad v26 (3 axis pro) from the demo program and the demos done by the technical sales at BobCAD.

I have taught myself a system of work arounds for machining complex surfaces. If I make additional surfaces in Solidedge, minus any hole info and exiting the stock material. We mainly use the machine to produce jigs and fixtures that have complex pommel forms (hydraulically pressed parts that are cut on a 5axis laser, then robot welded and robot linished). Some of the bigger stuff have needed the need of using the advanced milling options where the strength of the milling machine has come into play (XYZ 3500) and a uniform one way cut is required. Only issues with the current surfaces I have to add is we cut quite a bit of fresh air, but it works without the cutter trying to recut detail you want bob to ignore.

Once I worked out the how to get round the issues I have probably written over 1000 setups in the last 12 months.

Support wise it is hard to say, I'm based in the UK and only really get support after 1pm. They always seem helpful to fix your issue. I'm struggling at the minute with our draconian IT dept that won't allow bobcad to remote access my PC to fix a problem I have in a recent upgrade to v28. I can't blame them for the problem, because I'm part of a large business and we are the only ones that use anything but word/excel !

Cost wise, its been a no-brainer. Our first dip into machining meant nothing else was worth buying, or even justifying. We wouldn't have been able to do the work we have without the price of Bob.

CAD wise I try my best to only do the required 2D cad in bob, it still seems complicated compared to a far more mature and streamlined CAD software (ST8). It looks like its getting better in v28 but I've only just started using it.

Another thing to remember with the apadtive roughing isn't always the fastest way to get rid of material, I usually use the advanced rough with the offset command for most work. One big benefit of the advanced command is it allows the cutter out of the stock when there is less than the offset, it doesn't leave lands like the standard rough.

Shaun