stamping

[One of Many]

There seems to be a trade off between laser (better for most thin stuff) and waterjet (better for thick stuff). I've heard that trade off be anywhere from 1/4" to 3/4". I'd love to hear people's opinions on that as I'm also looking at a 1/4" job soon.

-Jeff

The price difference may be a wash. The cost in consumables to run a Laser may be cheaper than a water jet, but the cost of the machine is higher. I'd expect the laser to out perform the water jet in terms of speed for the proper rating. I'd guess at least 6-10 minutes run time with a 40kpsi jet. Maybe 2-3 minutes or less on a 3kw Laser. It would be a swag to think Plasma could come in between those times, but the machine is not that much cheaper than the jet. The control systems can be nearly identical.

At around 1/4", I would not expect the tolerances to be much different between the three options, but the edge finish and condition will be something to contend with if critical.

DC

[One of Many]

i mean if it is a product that I want to make i'll work for free ya know? So yes my labor is cheap...

The thing I think the rest of the guy's are offering is investment to market. If you had an established outlet with about a thousand dollars in parts to sell. The market demand might make it more realistic to spend the effort making punch style tooling. Spending a thousand dollars of your free time as a hip shot on your first punching die attempt might gain you nothing further to promote, cept more time and money to get it right the second or third try without anything sold.

It is good advise, but not what you may wish to hear. This economics of business is as valuable a lesson as your time learning to create the tooling. You can make both pay off down the road.

DC

[Mcgyver]

not sure about that on 1/4 inch plate.

A guy I know took me through his plant awhile ago - bunch of 5000 W lasers that do up will do up to 1". The rapid traverse is something like 8000 ipm!!! iirc its magentic linear bearings - seeing the gantry on that thing fly towards at that speed is almost frightening!

[JavaDog]

The biggest mistake someone starting their own business can make is the assumption that their time is worthless (ie - free). It is a sure-fire way to make a business fail.

That is why Banks will not let you do that in a business plan - your time must be worth a certain rate. You need to figure that into your costs.

Let me ask you this, what happens if you spend all this time (and material/money) making a die for this part - and you don't sell anything? Is it worse than if you spent $200 having the parts laser-cut - and then not selling any?

[MBG]

The biggest mistake someone starting their own business can make is the assumption that their time is worthless (ie - free). It is a sure-fire way to make a business fail.

That is why Banks will not let you do that in a business plan - your time must be worth a certain rate. You need to figure that into your costs.

Let me ask you this, what happens if you spend all this time (and material/money) making a die for this part - and you don't sell anything? Is it worse than if you spent $200 having the parts laser-cut - and then not selling any?

I am pretty sure I can sell these parts but I wnat to make them myself... I want to learn how to make them... I can cnc them up but that won't be cost efficient...

[One of Many]

A guy I know took me through his plant awhile ago - bunch of 5000 W lasers that do up will do up to 1". The rapid traverse is something like 8000 ipm!!! iirc its magentic linear bearings - seeing the gantry on that thing fly towards at that speed is almost frightening!

Not 5000w that I know of, but the rapid travel is around 10,000 ipm, IF we are talking about the same machine. I don't know of anyone else producing linear motor lasers like this!

If you can....watch the feature avoidance video. 6.9meg, but it shows the speed these things cut at. I think the rate a few years ago was 100 1/4" holes in 60 seconds through .06 material.

DC

[Mcgyver]

The guy had just bought some of these and was showing off, oops, demonstrating them. they were impressive.

http://www.trumpf.com/scripts/redire...1.tcl3050.html

the ipm figure they give is combined x/y, whereas i think its 8000 along one axis.

[One of Many]

Very impressive!

I did not realize anyone was offering 5KW lasers let alone linear motors besides CI. I've been out of that industry for 6 years.

I hope they make better lasers than some of the BP clones I have seen with their name plate.

Maybe that was just TRUMP without the F.

DC

[Mcgyver]

well as far as high speed lasers go, I've never been in the biz - I was just a like a googoo eyed grade school kid on a plant tour. The only thing other thing I know about trumpf was that they're german.

I'm used to the thinking of german machine tool makes as high end stuff - then again the politicaly correct peeps would say that was a racist remark and the germans have every right and would be more than able to make low budg chicom bport knock-off crap if they wanted

[One of Many]

well as far as high speed lasers go, I've never been in the biz - I was just a like a googoo eyed grade school kid on a plant tour. The only thing other thing I know about trumpf was that they're german.

I'm used to the thinking of german machine tool makes as high end stuff - then again the politicaly correct peeps would say that was a racist remark and the germans have every right and would be more than able to make low budg chicom bport knock-off crap if they wanted

Giving credit where credit is due is hardly racist. They earned their pride in making great tools over the years. Look at Japan and Taiwan and how far they have come even in the last 20-30 years. I think China is a bit envious, but rather than compete......

I wish I could have been there googoo eyed along with ya! Even with as many plants as I have seen in my years of field service. I never get tired of seeing new places.

DC

[mxtras]

Many times I am in awe of some of the older equipment, and I tour as many places that will allow me in their doors!

One of the most impressive things is seeing an aluminum rolling mill take a 60,000 pound ingot and cold roll it into 1/4" plate. It puts the steel mils to shame as far as speed (duh - the material is easier to shape).

AGFM (an Austrian machine builder) built a linear motor, ultrasonic knife cutting machine in about 1994 or 1995 that cut Kevlar and carbon pre-pregs at rediculous speeds without cutting through the backing paper - over the entire table. That was absolutely incredible. I believe that machine was sold to Boeing or Sikorski. They could also cut a stack of 24oz triaxial fiberglass cloth 3" thick - about 50 layers - every filament was cut.

Guys - do me a favor and post up a link to a laser house with a 5000W laser, please. I don't want to visit - I may want them to quote 1/4" aluminum parts. I have exhausted all of my local resources and I haven't had to play this game for almost two years. The most powerful laser in my area is 3500W and he will not cut my parts for me anymore - says it tears up his equipment and he would rather not continue.

Anyway - since the thread went to pasture I thought I would chime in with this useless information. Thanks for playing along.

By the way - I started a new thread. It was inspired by this discussion.

Sorry about the hijack.

Scott

[Mcgyver]

company is royal laser - sent you a pm