Hoss's G0704

[hoss2006]

The 2nd rpm test was just as hot. I felt what seemed to be a flat spot when
rotating the spindle by hand, I looked over all the bearings and races before putting it back together,
with my glasses on too, and didn't see or feel anything abnormal. It ran for half an hour and didn't seem to get any hotter.
Good news is that the rpm readout is working now, I slotted the holes in the pickup bracket
so it can cover the holes better, did the trick.
Hoss

YouTube- G0704 RPM Test 2

YouTube- G0704 RPM Test 2

[machinechick]

Wow that looks like an awful lot of grease. If it ran cool for awhile and then got hot the grease probably just "broke down" I drive by an Industrial Mobile dealer sometimes so I stopped in once and I got some MLUX EP2 X03G2 for tapered rollers on a lathe spindle. I just tried for about a 50% pack, then did the gradual break-in to distribute the grease before turning it up slowly until I was at max (ran at 20 min). The temp should reach equalibrium and stop rising. The spindles been running fine since, the pulley and belt generate more heat than the spindle. Can't remember the exact temp for the mill spindle, but it really shouldn't get even hand hot. On the German sites the temp runs anywhere from 95 f to 140 f (the 140 f is after hours of use). I use my mill almost every day and the light generates more heat than the spindle, generally I'm running between 500 and 1800 rpm though (manual).

[hoss2006]

After I ordered an

infrared thermometer

infrared thermometer

to check the temp,
I found a bearing from another project that's going to replace the lower tapered roller.
This one is rated to 11,000 rpm with grease.
Have another AC ordered for the upper.
No sense in fiddling with the TR's anymore.
I'll post numbers when I know they work.
Hoss

[madbee]

Hoss, I took my quill out and removed the top lock nut. However, the race would not come off after that. I tried a few light taps with a mallet but it did not budge. Those races can't be press fit, could they? That wouldn't make sense to me. I did not want to hit it too hard with the hammer either. Did yours just slide off or did you need to press them out or tap them out somehow? BTW, I could see a little factory grease on the top and bottom set of roller bearings since they were not shielded or sealed. The lower set of bearings in the head (looking up after removal of the spindle-see pic) were enclosed and marked as "China", "HRB", and "6008Z"...if that means anything to anyone.

There are a few concerns I have with my spindle. First, is the missing pin, which has been discussed. Secondly, I just got an Albrecht integral R8 chuck and the darn thing is showing .005 runout. I also tried mounting another R8 arbor and it showed no runout, but I noticed that the Albrecht is actually longer, and I also noticed a small imperfection at the deepest portion of the R8 taper in my spindle. Maybe it is coming in contact with an imperfection (on the taper portion) and that is throwing it off. I am going to take my Albrecht and mount it at a machine shop to see where the issue really lies.....but at least I have grease!! - lol

[hoss2006]

I held the quill section in one hand and pounded on top of the spindle with a dead blow hammer.
Had the drawbar retainer cup screwed on to protect the threads just in case.
Only took a couple of hits to pop the bearing loose.
The inner races for the tapered rollers are press fit, I need to make a tool to remove them.
Don't want to destroy them if I don't have to.
The bearings I found to replace them aren't as thick but there may be enough room for adjustment,
If not, that's what spacers are for.
VBX, Applied and Fastenal all have the sizes needed but Applied gives a LOT more info on their bearings.
Hoss

[ihavenofish]

Originally Posted by hoss2006 I held the quill section in one hand and pounded on top of the spindle with a dead blow hammer. Had the drawbar retainer cup screwed on to protect the threads just in case. Only took a couple of hits to pop the bearing loose. The inner races for the tapered rollers are press fit, I need to make a tool to remove them. Don't want to destroy them if I don't have to. The bearings I found to replace them aren't as thick but there may be enough room for adjustment, If not, that's what spacers are for. VBX, Applied and Fastenal all have the sizes needed but Applied gives a LOT more info on their bearings. Hoss

are you looking at tapered bearings or angular contacts on these sites?

which model did you get?

[Teyber12]

i heard this weirdo has some thermocouple thermometers for sale
http://www.teyberdesign.com/product/...ature-displaya

ha but if you ever use flood on this guy you could always make a manifold that "clamps" around the spindle and load it with some artic silver thermal grease

[hoss2006]

The lower bearing is the same size as an X2 lower spindle bearing, 35 x 62mm.
The Tapered roller is 18mm thick but all replacements ac's and deep grooves I've found are 14mm.
I made a spacer for the lower but it may work without it, won't know till I get the upper bearing.
Could give me an extra 4mm Z travel.

Cool stuff teyber, don't know how I would attach the thermocouple to a spinning spindle though (that's the hot part).
My infrared is on the way anyhow, should be cool, figure I'll find out how warm EVERYTHING in my house is.
Hoss

[arizonavideo]

Originally Posted by hoss2006 No sense in fiddling with the TR's anymore. I'll post numbers when I know they work. Hoss

I wouldn't say for sure the that the tapered rollers are the main cause of the over heating. You said that the X2 runs the same lower bearing and many off them have added belt drive and don't over heat at 4K rpm. The IH mills have a much larger tapered roller in the bottom of the spindle and they go 5K with a VFD and don't over heat.

I would look at other heat sources like the top gear idler bearing.
Machinechick said that the Weiss with the open bearings on the gear drive ran cool. My Weiss 30 has the sealed bearings and it runs smoking hot at 3K I think it was 74deg C.

The bearing races might not be square or perhaps the grease needs to be better.

I found some high speed stuff here.

http://www.precisionspindle.com/data...lex_NBU_15.htm

The gears themselves might be making a lot of the heat too.

I still think the large gear drive bearing may be the problem. Perhaps a lighter grease or removing the top seal might lower the temp.

[hoss2006]

Originally Posted by arizonavideo I wouldn't say for sure the that the tapered rollers are the main cause of the over heating. You said that the X2 runs the same lower bearing and many off them have added belt drive and don't over heat at 4K rpm. The IH mills have a much larger tapered roller in the bottom of the spindle and they go 5K with a VFD and don't over heat. I would look at other heat sources like the top gear idler bearing. Machinechick said that the Weiss with the open bearings on the gear drive ran cool. My Weiss 30 has the sealed bearings and it runs smoking hot at 3K I think it was 74deg C. The bearing races might not be square or perhaps the grease needs to be better. I found some high speed stuff here. http://www.precisionspindle.com/data...lex_NBU_15.htm The gears themselves might be making a lot of the heat too. I still think the large gear drive bearing may be the problem. Perhaps a lighter grease or removing the top seal might lower the temp.

X2's have deep groove roller bearings not tapered rollers, they just share the same ID and OD.
I've had luck with my x2 too, I can run at 6100 rpm for hours and barely get it over room temp.
I've checked the 0704 a couple times with the quill up and down and felt different spots on the quill, casting and head.
I'll get more "scientific" when the thermometer gets here so I can pinpoint the source of the heating,
but my fingers tell me it's the lower bearing, nothing else comes close to that heat.
The lower end of the quill (that holds the big bearing) gets warm first and works it's way to the lower end of the spindle till they
are both too hot to touch.
The upper end of the quill (that houses the upper bearing) is barely warm.
I plan to gut the head for the belt drive so I won't have to worry about anything else causing problems,
just trying to get this simple gear mod increase operational for anyone that
might want to keep the quill.
I have no use for a quill with CNC.
Do you have a price for that Kluber NBU15?
Thanks, Hoss

[steveg]

Source for Kluber http://www.klueber.com/
There is a "Shop" button on the home page.
If you follow the "application" button
throught metalforming to spindle and tapered rolled
bearing, it suggests ISOFLEX LDS 18 SPECIAL A
(althought there is a calculation for speed factor that you
should probably do ,with a second choice of grease)
NBU 15 is normally used in ball bearings.
Kluber is the favorite grease for machine tool builders
like Mori Seiki, OKK,Kuraki and most other Japanese Builders
so it is a very safe choice.
It is normal to apply only a small amount of grease to spindle bearing,
about 15 to 25% of the open volume or air space between the inner and outer
races

[ihavenofish]

Originally Posted by arizonavideo I wouldn't say for sure the that the tapered rollers are the main cause of the over heating. You said that the X2 runs the same lower bearing and many off them have added belt drive and don't over heat at 4K rpm. The IH mills have a much larger tapered roller in the bottom of the spindle and they go 5K with a VFD and don't over heat. I would look at other heat sources like the top gear idler bearing. Machinechick said that the Weiss with the open bearings on the gear drive ran cool. My Weiss 30 has the sealed bearings and it runs smoking hot at 3K I think it was 74deg C. The bearing races might not be square or perhaps the grease needs to be better. I found some high speed stuff here. http://www.precisionspindle.com/data...lex_NBU_15.htm The gears themselves might be making a lot of the heat too. I still think the large gear drive bearing may be the problem. Perhaps a lighter grease or removing the top seal might lower the temp.

weiss usa told me the bearings are only good up to about 4000rpm.

you can buy much higher quality tapered rollers with p5(abec5) tolerances which will run up over 8000rpm with grease. they cost much though. most machines ive seen with tapered rollers this size top out about 6000rpm - and aparently get rather warm as well from things ive read.