Weiss Milling Machines

[abfa9358]

Hi Everyone,
Has anyone got experience of Weiss milling machines . I'm thinking of buying a WMD30V http://www.weiss.com.cn/products/wmd30v.php. I think WARCO in the UK sell them as a VM18 machine. I was considering a WABECO F1210E but just can't justify the cost.
Any comments much appreciated.
Regards
Andy

[ihavenofish]

Originally Posted by abfa9358 Hi Everyone, Has anyone got experience of Weiss milling machines . I'm thinking of buying a WMD30V http://www.weiss.com.cn/products/wmd30v.php. I think WARCO in the UK sell them as a VM18 machine. I was considering a WABECO F1210E but just can't justify the cost. Any comments much appreciated. Regards Andy

ive been researching them. i plan on getting a wmd25v in the near future. the seems to be the best quality small manual machiens for the price. i have not seen on in person yet though.

im actually currently designing a machine similar thats a cross between the wmd25 and wmd30, but specific for cnc.

[LongRat]

Hi Andy,
The Warco WM18 looks to be the same based on the link you posted. I'm planning to buy the Warco soon, seems superb value at £1250 with free shipping. I understand your feelings on the Wabeco, they are truly a cut above in terms of quality but I can't justify the extra cost either.
Out of interest, where can you buy the Weiss and how much is it selling for?

[abfa9358]

LongRat
Agreed 1250 seems very good value now that I've seen one in the "flesh"

I contacted these guys http://weiss-europe.nl/ got a quote for the WDM30LV machine 840mm table rather than 700mm delivered to UK with drip tray and stand for 1295 euros plus Dutch VAT (19%).

Out of interest what other machines did you consider? Are you going to CNC it? Having looked at the WM18 I think it would convert to ball screws fairly easily.
Regards
Andy

[LongRat]

Well my dream machine is the Wabeco 1410, but out of my price range. I have considered the X3 but I would rather go for more travel if possible. I don't want round-column and I would rather have an electronic speed control rather than fixed ratios. This leaves me with nothing so far that realistically competes with the Warco WM18. Warco also sell the slightly smaller version which is probably more of a direct X3 comparison.
I will definitely be converting it to CNC, I went over the machine quite closely at the recent Bristol ME Exhibition. I already have a converted X2 and will be using that to make the conversion parts. The layout of the WM18 should make the job a lot easier than it is for the X2. There is plenty of space for 16mm ballscrews and nuts under the table, and the vertical leadscrew for the z axis is very convenient for a direct ballscrew replacement and motor connection. Plus, you also have the quill available for manual drilling which is a nice addition.

[menthol]

I've got an WMD30v that I bought from Amadeal in London, and I'm very impressed with it. I stripped it down to cleam and relube it when I got it and took some photos, I can post if you want.
The screws fitted are 16mm for the x and y axis and 20mm for the z.

There's a review in model engineers workshop vol 153 on the warco wm18 which is the same beast, vol 145 has a review of the wmd25.

Oh, nearly forgot RDG do the same mill with powerfeed or DRO as well, and I believe spg on eblag sell the same mill.

mark

[LongRat]

That's good info Menthol, thanks! I'd certainly like to see your photos.

[menthol]

Ok lets hope this works.

First photo the X and Y nuts.


X nut is 45mm x 50mm x 30mm Mounted with 2 off M8 screws. The nut is slotted to take up backlash with 2 M4 (I think) cap head screws.
Y Nut is 60mm x 40mm x 30mm, again mounted with 2 off M8 screws and the same backlash adjustment. I don't believe the cut outs above the mounting screws actually serve any purpose as I can't remember anything that would need clearance.

Z Nut


The z nut is a 2 piece design. The main nut part was a 40mm square, 57mm long threaded 20mm. It has a mounting "arm" 20mm dia 30mm long that sits inside the mounting block. The mounting block, again 40mm square, I haven't noted the length down (sorry), bolts to the z slide(M8 screws again) and the mounting arm sits in the 20mm bored hole. Back lash is taken up using M4 grub screws in the z slide that tilt the mounting block. You can only get at these grubscrews by taking the head off.

Z Slide

This shows the back of the z slide, showing where the mounting block for the z nut screws on, and where the grub screws are fitted. Below this is where the air spring bolts on.

Base


The under side of the base, a very heavy duty casting, showing where the bottom of the air spring bolts on.

Z screw bearing and mount.
[

just a photo showing the z screw bearing, the plate it sits in is about 15mm thick. The bevel gear is for the z handle, I can't get rid of the backlash here. Plenty of scope here for directly mounting a stepper motor and getting rid of that gear.

Column and base



The column is an enclosed box section with just a cut out for the z slide / nut. I reckon its about 10mm wall thickness (sorry forgot to measure it) The combined column and base assembly can just about be lifted by two men, I couldn't walk staight the next day though. All the other sub assemblies are manageable by one man.

Hope this gives you some info

mark

[abfa9358]

LongRat,
Fully agree with your comments re. Wabeco. I wonder if the strange looks I got from the Warco rep. at the Thornbury exhibition were due to me being the second person peering into the inner workings of his WM18 to see if it could be CNC'd.
We seem to have gone the same route in terms of our machines. I have an X2 from Chester Tools UK which I CNC'd with home brew drivers and timing belts controlled by EMC. Then up graded to ball screws (fiddly job to get the X nut in) and Motion Control Products drivers. My plan (young family permitting) is to buy a WM18 / WDM30 and use the X2 to CNC it then sell the X2 and my pillar drill to recover some shed space.

Menthol many thanks for posting - a picture tells a thousand words!! Have you accessed the squareness of the mill yet? Does it compare with the spec sheet? MEW gave the machine a good write up but I wonder if the machine was "tweeked" prior to being reviewed.

Andy

[LongRat]

Andy,
quite strange that both of us were at the Thornbury show and our CNC conversion routes are identical! Here is my Chester X2:



I'm very happy with this machine and it has done a ton of work since I converted it in 2005. I used Gecko G201s and a CNC4PC breakout board. I over-specced the CNC side knowing I'd want to retrofit a bigger mill later, so I used 450 oz.in NEMA34 motors running at 6 amps all round, on a 39VDC power supply. I'll be buying a Gecko G540 and some NEMA23 motors for the X2 so I can sell it as a turnkey package when I have finished the big machine.

I must say, going on the info Menthol just posted, I'm less sure about the Warco WM18 now. It looks like almost identical machines are available from SPG and elsewhere, check this: http://www.spgtools.com/view_tool.php?pid=7

I'd need to see this machine to really verify the similarity to the Warco, but for the price difference I'd be willing to drive to Leicester to do that if needed. After all, the way I look at it is that if you are doing a CNC conversion you are pretty much just buying the cast iron. I don't care about the leadscrews, bearings, amount of play in the nuts etc. SPG were at Thornbury too, they had a tent outside but this machine wasn't on the stand. I hadn't heard of them before either. It's interesting to see that it is still hugely cheaper to convert a machine yourself than to buy a machine already done.

[menthol]

Andy as far as I can tell with my cheap Axminster dial indicator and home made arm the column seems pretty square, as good as the inspection report. Tramming the head after taking it off was a bit of a pain. I didn't split the column and base hoping not to have to try shimming afterwards.

Longrat, I think I've given you duff info there, it's totalmtt selling the WMD30, item number 260418397865. The spg one is a lot lighter and I think the column is not much wider than your x2.

[LongRat]

Ah yes I see now. That makes more sense - the price difference was too big for them to be the same machine I guess.
The machine on Ebay from totalmtt is only slightly cheaper than the Warco... works out about £100 less including shipping. Much harder call in that case. The temptation is to stick with the established retailer.