New build - base on SX1L or X3?

[small.planes]

hi all,
Im considering a new CNC build (I have a Proxxon MF70 based conversion).
I want something a little larger, I have a honking big manual mill (11"x49" TOS) so somewhere between the 2.
I think the travels on the X3 are about what Im looking for (~5.5"x14").
However the Super X1L is not far short in the travels dept (~1.2" in the X and a shorter Z), and is considerably cheaper. (approx 1/3 price)
Given that Im going to CNC it, and hence effectively the mill is a kit of approximately correct shaped castings is there a good (£400) reason to choose the X3 as a starting point?

(there will of course be more questions once I start )

cheers

Dave

[acondit]

Yes, its rigidity. I have an X2 and neither an X1 or X3, so I am reporting what I have read not what I know. I believe the X3 has a better spindle setup as well as a more rigid column than the X1. But ultimately its your money, and your choice.

Alan

[slashmaster]

I have an X3. It originally got 16"x, 5 3/4"y and 14 3/4"z. I cut material off the table endplates so now I get 20 1/2"x and could easily get another 1/2" of z if I jack up the electronics cover on back. This mill has reverse so you can tap threads too, I don't know if a sx1l is like that.

You have me confused, you say you have a small mill and a honking big 11" by 49" manual mill already right? Why would you ever need another? Why not just cnc your big mill.

[small.planes]

Ok, maybe small is a bit to large a word for the proxxon, Travel is 134 mm (x axis), 46 mm on the y axis, Z (height) 80 mm. so tiny might be better.
It is my first foray into CNC, and its easy to find space for it. unfortunatly it is really to small for the next project I have, and although I could do it on the manual mill I think it would be a good CNC job (identical sets of bits for an engine, eg 4 con rods)

I dont really want to CNC my big mill, I quite like using it and it would need a lot of work (big heavy bits, very large motors etc). Theres always a need for another machine

guess I need to look in the flesh at the machines, I thought the X3 column was mostly a sheet metal part that didnt really add anything.

Dave

[hoss2006]

I have a pic on my mill comparison page that could give slash an idea of what you have now.
A Proxon on a kneemill.


The X3 would make a good intermediate.
Hoss

[acondit]

Originally Posted by small.planes Ok, maybe small is a bit to large a word for the proxxon, Travel is 134 mm (x axis), 46 mm on the y axis, Z (height) 80 mm. so tiny might be better. It is my first foray into CNC, and its easy to find space for it. unfortunatly it is really to small for the next project I have, and although I could do it on the manual mill I think it would be a good CNC job (identical sets of bits for an engine, eg 4 con rods) I dont really want to CNC my big mill, I quite like using it and it would need a lot of work (big heavy bits, very large motors etc). Theres always a need for another machine guess I need to look in the flesh at the machines, I thought the X3 column was mostly a sheet metal part that didnt really add anything. Dave

No, it is a good cast iron column with some sheet metal coverings.

Alan

[small.planes]

Hoss, funny what turns up, thats actually my proxxon on my TOS FNK25

Had a quick look at an X3 this evening, yep its quite a bit beefier than an X1 in the column area, and also the table/saddle looks stronger.

guess I need to get a larger budget approval from SWMBO


Dave

[hoss2006]

No kidding?
That's funny, I saw that pic on the Home Shop Machinist forum a long time ago.
Small world.
Hoss

[slashmaster]

Originally Posted by small.planes Hoss, funny what turns up, thats actually my proxxon on my TOS FNK25 Had a quick look at an X3 this evening, yep its quite a bit beefier than an X1 in the column area, and also the table/saddle looks stronger. guess I need to get a larger budget approval from SWMBO Dave

Oh yeah, the column is heavy! I took my mill apart to get it in my basement, I seperated it into Base, saddle, table, column, head, motor and electronics cover. I just barely carried the column into the basement with the leadscrew, nut and its plate still attached, next time I'm taking those pieces off too. I'm thinking about doing the same thing Hoss did and seeing how well my column fits in the saddle. It is 29 1/8" long.

By the way, looks like you already have great equipment now! Are you starting a mill collection or something? Is the TOS FNK25 really your dads and he would be pissed if you cnc it? Or is it worth a lot as an antique and you don't want to mutilate it by drilling holes in it for steppers?

[small.planes]

nope, it really is mine. Its not an antique (well 1988), and it *could* be CNC'd I guess, but not this time (Its to heavy to move around and its set into a corner so it doesnt eat *all* the workshop space. )
A picture of my workshop:

Behind me is a wall and a surface grinder TIG set and 'dirty work area'.

A bit of background:
A couple of years ago I was making a lot of small parts for sub micro helicopters (about 15mmx5mmx1.6mm) using the TOS.
I decided that this was a bit silly and the proxxon would fit the bill better for tiny parts (20K spindle for a start), but it took longer to convert than intended, and now I dont make those parts any more.
Now the Proxxon is ok for tiny, but the next project lined up is a 999cc 4pot turbo, and I need to do some engine sized bits (crank, conrods etc). I could do them on the TOS, but any excuse to get a new toy
The TOS is a nice to use manual machine, and for one offs and such it saves having to draw/gcode things. Its also a Knee mill, and as such I think Id need to have both the quill and the knee cnc'd, which when you add a RT means 5 (4 stonking big) drivers.
So as a relative noob to the CNC world I figured a larger useful benchtop size machine to play and learn on would be a good thing. (cheaper crashes )

Having seen a lot of X series conversions that seems like a good place to start, knowledge available already. I think that I might roller nut all the axis (trying to do this on a budget, but if I have to remake the stock nuts anyway...) and generally consider the mill as a shipped together kit that needs assembling...

cheers

Dave

[slashmaster]

Interesting shop. That mill looked a lot older than 88. Is the Lathe the same vintage? Why would you cnc the knee and the quil? I've never heard of anyone doing that. An X3 also has a quil ya know.

[small.planes]

Lathe is about 1955 vintage, Harrison L5

Quill has only about 5" of travel, whereas the knee has more, I assumed that you would CNC all the moving functions. I am a begginer at this.
For a benchtop mill Id only do the head I think, as the quill is not very rigid when out and unlocked? And the Quill and head move together anyway.
The TOS quill is, but thats a monster industrial mill.

Dave