Super X3 Questions

[f757lkk]

Hi All,

I'm currently in a bit of a situation with my super x3..... Let me explain....

I've had my super x3 for a few months now. I've been reminding myself of machining techniques i've learnt over the years and have got to the stage where i want to do more complex operations. So i figure i need to install a DRO to improve the accuracy, this will cost around £600 for a full Sino setup. I also quite like the idea of CNC... i can get the Syil upgrade kit for £1700. here lies my problem, do i Fit a DRO or do i splash out on the conversion kit?

I really want to maintain manual control of the mill as well as the ability of CNC but the Syil kit doesn't cater for this directly. I could buy the DRO and make my own CNC system and also use the DRO scales for closed loop feedback.

What do you guys think? can the syil kit be modified for manual control, i'd still need dro inputs for positioning the table in manual mod as a guess because i think the syil kit is open loop control?!?!?!


Can any one help me resolve my ramblings????


thanks in advance,


Jamie

[Crevice Reamer]

Hi f757lkk. Welcome to the Zone!

MOST, who install DROs do so enroute to CNC. DRO is not needed for CNC, so DRO money spent is often virtually wasted.

Everybody wants to maintain manual control at first. SOME actuallly DO it. Almost everyone quickly stops using manual control. Manual control is at least POSSIBLE if you use the stock lead screws.

If you install Ball Screws though, Manual control is not feasible because there is no friction to hold the table still against cutting force.

MY philosophy is to FIRST do simple CNC with stock lead screws THEN use the new CNC capability to manufacture more capable mounts. A good lathe is necessary to machine ball screws. Sans lathe, there are factory machining options and enterprising forum members who do this for low cost.

There are many kits available for less than Syil price.

http://cncfusion.com/smallmill1.html

CR.

[escott76]

The idea of using the DRO scales for "closed loop" feedback is an attractive one, but it is one specifically recommended against by people who make control software for CNC. Short answer is that it doesn't work well.
It's been said before, but you won't miss manual control in a week. MDI and regular jogging will take care of everything you might want quicker and easier that you'd do it by hand.

[f757lkk]

Thanks for the replies,


so effectively the DRO's are a bit of a waste if CNC is the end goal, but i can see a use for them whilst machining the first parts for my CNC conversion.

Any idea why closed loop feedback causes problems?

If i use stock lead screws for a basic initial CNC what mods do i need to make?

Does the table need to home every pass to take into account any backlash left in the lead screws?

Is it still possible using stock lead screws and cnc to machine accurate curves/circular pockets?



Thanks again for your help, i',m sorry about all of the newbie questions!!!!


jamie

[escott76]

Thanks for the replies,


so effectively the DRO's are a bit of a waste if CNC is the end goal, but i can see a use for them whilst machining the first parts for my CNC conversion.

Any idea why closed loop feedback causes problems?

If i use stock lead screws for a basic initial CNC what mods do i need to make?

Does the table need to home every pass to take into account any backlash left in the lead screws?

Is it still possible using stock lead screws and cnc to machine accurate curves/circular pockets?



Thanks again for your help, i',m sorry about all of the newbie questions!!!!


jamie

Closed loop feedback doesn't cause problems by itself, many commercial systems include it. But using linear scales on the table in order to control a servo loop causes issues with motors hunting if there is even the tiniest bit of slop between the motor itself and the table. The place for a servo loop encoder is on the motor shaft, as it can provide the best information to the servo controller itself.
If I were you, I'd take the money I was going to put into DRO's and instead put it into ball screws. That would solve a lot of problems.

[Crevice Reamer]

Thanks for the replies,


so effectively the DRO's are a bit of a waste if CNC is the end goal, but i can see a use for them whilst machining the first parts for my CNC conversion.

Spend the $500 towards a CNC KIT, and you won't NEED a DRO.

If i use stock lead screws for a basic initial CNC what mods do i need to make?

Simple motor mounts to replace each handle.

Does the table need to home every pass to take into account any backlash left in the lead screws?

NO! Stock screws use split anti-backlash nuts. These, tight screw nut and properly adjusted gibbs pretty much eliminate backlash. The Z may have some backlash, but the weight of head generally compensates for it.

Is it still possible using stock lead screws and cnc to machine accurate curves/circular pockets?

Yep!

CR.

[f757lkk]

Hi everyone,

I'm back again i've had a few months away from my cnc conversion project with things like house moving and trackdays getting in the way, but i'm back on it now with full enthusiasm!!!! I posted this originally in the Syil thread following on about my post regarding the syil conversion kit but i thought it would probably be better of over here as it no longer falls under that category.

The list of components from CR has been extremely useful. I think i'll buy the Gecko's and PMDX straight from the US as PMDX can send me a 4-Axis bundle to the UK for not too much money and everyone seems pretty impressed with that BOB driver combo.

my question is now finding an alternative for the steppers and PSU that Crevice Reamer suggested as these are heavy to ship and i'll get stung on tax when they go through customs!!!!

i found the following items that may or may not be suitable for a good price in the uk if you'd be kind enough to let me know if they're a good alternative i'd be really grateful!!!!

alternative for KL23H284-35-4B 387 oz motors for X and Y
http://www.motioncontrolproducts.co....H88-3008DF.pdfhttp://www.motioncontrolproducts.co....H88-3008DF.pdf

Alternative for KL34H280-55-4A 637 oz motor for Z.
http://www.motioncontrolproducts.co....80-4208A-H.pdfhttp://www.motioncontrolproducts.co....80-4208A-H.pdf

Alternative for KL- 6515 65v 15A PSU.

http://www.motioncontrolproducts.co....plies_v2.0.pdfhttp://www.motioncontrolproducts.co....plies_v2.0.pdf
it's the PS-705


If someone with a bit more experiance than myself can run their eyes over the specs and compare it with the Kelling supplied stuff and let me know of any pitfalls in my plan i would be extremely grateful.

thanks in advance,

Jamie

[Crevice Reamer]

Have you actually checked with John Keling about the shipping? He ships priority mail, and as far as I know it is quite reasonably priced for international.

sale@Kelinginc.net

CR.