Build Thread- Dual conversion ZAY7045 and G9972z

[clocker]

Well, here is the start of a thread about converting my Lathemaster ZAY7045 mill and a Grizzly g9972z lathe to CNC. I got into this hobby / addiction a little over 4 months ago. Funny how you get into these things... I was talking with a friend about automotive projects and he mentioned how useful his Smithy 3 in 1 machine had been. The conversation made me remember how much I loved doing small projects on the mill at an old job. I did a lot of research on the forums before making a purchase.

Two things stood out. 1. Buy individual machines. 2. Pick up the biggest machines that you can afford.

Fast forward a few months and the checkbook worked out to give me enough to pick up a lathe with a mill coming a few months later. I had a couple of small projects that were suited for manual work, but during the initial planning I had always anticipated CNC conversions in the future.

So with the lathe doing some productive work and the mill sitting idle, I figured that it was time to dive in. The forums were very helpful once again. The ZAY is a large machine and most people are using Nema 34 motors. I did some calculations and it really seemed that the 100W from a G540 could work. Right around the time that I was spec'ing everything out for the mill, I ran across some parts that should be done on a CNC lathe. Ugh, guess it is time to do them both!

First off, major props to some of the vendors here! Rick at homeshopcnc.com, John at kelinginc.net, Tom at candcnc.com, Mariss at geckodrive and the folks at sdp-si.com have all been wonderful to do business with. Their products are top notch and they are easy to talk with. Many thanks to you folks!

The plans had to shift a bit with the dual conversion so here is the rough list of parts.
Mill:
homeshopcnc 20mm ballscrews
homeshopcnc 620oz-in steppers for x and y. 1290oz-in stepper for z
Gecko 203V and 2 G250s pulled from the G540
UBOB builders kit from CandCNC
Lathe:
homeshopcnc 20mm ballscrew for Z. Stock acme screw for X axis for now
homeshopcnc 620oz-in steppers for x and z
G540 (remaining 2 drivers)
Shared:
Keling KL- 5020 power supply for all drivers, limit switches and EPO.

The parts arrived last week and I have been busy out in the garage. First task was to test and install, then test again all of the electronics. Here are some of the progress pictures Fortunately I scored the control box cheap at a local auction. As of tonight, most of the wiring and labeling is done.

For some reason I figured that it would be interesting to machine the ballscrews myself. Fun... the interrupted cuts have been hell on my brazed carbide bits. The insert bits and holders should show up tomorrow. If that still has too many issues I'll anneal the ballscrews, but how much fun would that be?

The other challenge so far has been figuring out how to machine all of the mounts with the mill disassembled. Makes me really wish for another mill

Well, that's about it for the first week of progress. Hopefully once it is all mounted, the little motors will have the oomph to move everything around without loosing steps. Going with the G540 and Nema 23 motors saved quite a bit of money and if they work well, it should be really cool.

Thanks all of your help and advice. Hopefully this thread will help and / or inspire some other folks.
-Chris

[clocker]

Work has kept me busy lately, but I have been able to sneak out to the garage late some nights. Machining the ballscrews was a bear!. HomeshopCNC sells some pretty good ones from what I could tell. The inserts showed up and it took two inserts per ballscrew. Finally made it through though. Guess what? The cheap 1/2" insert toolholders come with some really bad bolts. A quick trip to the store found that the threads were 6-32, but the bolt was undersized. Score one more for import tools. A dozen new bolts for $1 solved that and the inserts last much longer when secured well

I really wished for another mill to convert this one. Would have been sooo much easier, but a little work with the lathe, grinder and bandsaw made some pretty decent parts for now.

The X and Y axis are now complete. Yay! So here are some videos. Do NEMA 23 motors work on a larger Mill? I've gotta say yes, but check out the videos to decide.

YouTube - CNC electronics first test

YouTube - CNC electronics first test

YouTube - ZAY MIll converstion with NEMA23 and G250

YouTube - ZAY MIll converstion with NEMA23 and G250

[clocker]

The photo album has been updated also with pictures of the ballscrews and mounting blocks. http://picasaweb.google.com/cflocker...eat=directlink

Hopefully there will be enough time tomorrow to do the Z axis.

[pete from TN]

Nice to see someone else is building a Lathemaster retrofit. Looking pretty good so far. I feel that these machines are excellent candidates for a cnc retrofit due to their good overall rigidity and reasonably largre machining envelope. What are your plans for the motor or are you gonna keep it stock? I envy that you got that nice enclosure for the electronics for a good deal. I am quite surprised at how much a simple steel box with a hinge can cost. Looks like you will not be having any problems with your X and y on the steppers and the G540. I am curious as to how the Z will work out with the Stepper tho. Are you gonna do a direct drive setup? My machine is all servo driven with some rather large servos and the Z is gonna have a 3-1 ratio. Hopefully that will drive it with authority. I am currently stripping the entire machine down for a repaint. It is going pretty well and I am working on the base right now. Keep up the good work and keep up the nice pictures and videos. I will probably try to get some on my conversion when I have something actually moving here. Good work man and peace....

[clocker]

Thanks Pete! Yeah, my wife was very curious why I was bidding on a large white box until I showed her the catalog price These machines do seem like the ideal candidate for garage CNC machines if you ever plan on needing to run larger workpieces through them.

I have to confess that I cheated on the Z axis and went with a larger motor and the G203V. The math without a counterbalance said that it would be a little underpowered on a G250 even under ideal circumstances (no motor out there is ideal for the G250 specs yet). All of the motors so far are 1:1 with timing belts instead of couplers. It was suggested that I drive the ballscrews at 1:2 to compensate for the sharp drop off in torque. Fortunately I have not seen that problem with the current tuning and tight ways. The little NEMA 23s are pretty fantastic so far and have lived up to what the math said they would do.

Servos looked awesome and from what I have read, you will get good performance with 3:1. I really debated on that route, but the opportunity of a dual conversion won me over based on price. I can't say enough about the G540's capabilities, design and price point.

I'd love to see some of your pics. It sounds like you are doing it right with all of the prep and paint work. Mine is pretty beat up now with some of the bondo chipped at the joining surfaces It really would be nice to repair all of that, but I figure that between the dry air in Colorado and coolant (anti-rust hopefully) that the bare cast iron in spots should have a long life even without paint. Some folks really turn out works of art with their machines. For me it is like a 4x4 truck. The first dent makes you cry for a week, but after that it's hammer down.

[pete from TN]

Finally getting started if you like, there is a lot of pictures in there of the conversion process. I thought about doing a stepper setup but it seems that most guys that are building machines of this size go with the servos and a reduction drive. I kinda lucked out and got a good deal on some rather large servos and encoders as a package brand new from someone who bought them for a conversion and then went another direction. I decided to tear my machine all down and repaint it mostly because it is several years old and there were little chips and dings everywhere that I was tired of looking at. Funny thing is whenever you manage to just ding it a little bit a large chunk of bondo would come off and then you cannot just touch it up. I took the column down to the bondo/primer layer and then just sanded it to a nice smooth look but the base I took all the way down to metal. I got tired of the large chips and now if I manage to drop a 123 block on it or something not only will it not chip off a large chunk but I will be able to touch it up since I have the paint for it here now. The weird thing is that after I took the whole thing down to metal I expected a good reason for all that bondo to be there and find a lot of voids and imperfections in the casting but I was pleasantly surprised to find a good solid casting and the only real imperfections were some small smears in the sides that are not really noticeable until you get right up on it. In fact the two or three coats of primer I am gonna be using will probably cover them up.

It sure is nice to actually see a Lathemaster mill running under cnc control, hurry up and get it finished so you can make some more cool videos and post them here. I need all the inspiration I can get man....peace

[clocker]

Hey Pete, your thread is great. I've subscribed to it and will keep reading. Glad to hear that your mill castings are in good condition. I was worried that mine would be porous with the thick layers of bondo on some areas.

Had a little more time in the garage tonight.

YouTube - ZAY7045 Z axis

YouTube - ZAY7045 Z axis

YouTube - ZAY7045 3 axis control

YouTube - ZAY7045 3 axis control

Hopefully I will be able to do some more tuning on the motors and dial in the steps per inch tomorrow.

[LUCKY13]

Pretty cool and quit surprizing th eZay is working this good with a nema 23 & 540 (or 250's)combo.


Just wandering what your thoughts on the Ballscrews you got are? I have been thinking about getting these but there are others that keep catching my eye also. Mine will be a servo setup so they will get worked hard & fast and I really dont want to have to worry with any backlash because of ballnuts. The single nut design kinda sounds like it might have a little slack if not setup just right. If it did end up with slack it would seem be hard to do anything about it to where a double nut setup could be worked with. I have never bought either setup so my thoughts are just from reading post on the forum. The HS setup looks good though and you cant beat the price so it may be the route I have to go. This stuff gets into a lot of funds real quick and its getting hard for me to get the budget together to finish my setup at this point. If I had took the route you went here I would have been done a long time ago.

Nice job BTW, lets see some chips flying now. When you start tuning it would help to get al the accel/deccel you can get instead of working for top speed. Quick dirrection changes can help cutting time more than top speed anyway as long as it can stay smooth and stable.

Jess

[pete from TN]

Congratulations on getting all three axes working. Your machine looks pretty nice. I hope to be getting mine done in the very near future. I got lots of work for it waiting!! The Lathemaster is working pretty well under stepper control it seems. I was wondering how that millhead was gonna work with the Stepper but obviously it lifts it alright. I removed the quill feed mechanism on my machine recently on advice that it is gonna be really unnecessary and I was quite surprised at how much weight the mechanism removed from the machine. Let alone the fact that the long drill press handles are not sticking out there getting in the way. I would think that you would get some better performance from the Z if you did the same thing. Think about it anyways, remember the tormach and many other cnc machines do not have a quill at all. Nevermind the rigidity of the machine decreases with every inch of downward quill travel.

Are you planning a coolant enclosure? Or are you gonna use a mist setup or something like that. My machine is gonna be hopefully a full flood setup so I intend to make my motor and encoder wiring encased in surgical tubing altho I have not figured out how I am gonna encase the motors for the X and Y. The Z on my machine is out back on the column behind the head instead of the side so no chance of getting coolant in there hopefully. I did this to also facilitate future Z column counterweight if it becomes necessary.


Anyways, good work and congrats that it is actually running, it sometimes seems like an eternity to the end of my build but I am admittedly doing it all myself and only buying the most important parts. Peace...

[clocker]

I'm really glad for the community here. I was reading another thread and thought to do some more work on my Z axis. Now it is running at 75 in/min which is much better. I spent a good few hours the other night trying to figure out how program a test part. My original thought of SketchUp -> LazyCAM - > Mach did not work too well

I've been looking around the forums and have been wondering what other people use for CAD CAM. I'm still doing this as a hobby so $1000+ software packages are not really an option. Are there some good low cost solutions out there?

Good news on the lathe front. I placed the order for the drive pulleys a few days ago. Everything should arrive in time for next weekend's shop time. Doing the mill first hopefully taught me a few lessons to make the lathe conversion go faster and smoother. The lathe will require cutting another ballscrew, so I splurged and ordered a few ceramic inserts. Hopefully they will last longer than the carbide ones have been.

[clocker]

It has been a busy weekend and the lathe is finally running under computer power! Here is a link to the

YouTube - G99772Z CNC

YouTube - G99772Z CNC

. Some pictures should be coming soon. Phew So, it looks like the little NEMA 23 steppers were a reasonable bet. The stepper ratios are 1:1 and the G540 (-2 of the drivers) is doing a great job. I was really thankful for the CNC mill when working on the lathe. During the mill build, the lathe was used for cutting the holes for bearings. Some quick work with the Mach wizards and I was able to cut out all of the plates and holes with the mill.

There are still a lot of things to wrap up. Limit switches, better mounting for EPO switches, adding flood coolant and an enclosure to the mill. Still debating on coolant for the lathe.

Some thoughts are kicking around for additions already. Dewalt has a laminate trimmer with a 30k RPM spindle. That would be really interesting for engraving and detail work. Some day soon I would like to be able to cut gears, so a 4th axis using a horizontal/vertical rotary table may be coming. I'm still researching collets for the lathe. ER32 or ER40 seem to be an interesting way to go. VFD drives would be nice for each of the machines. During the last trip to the local aluminum dealer, I scored a 40 x 9.5 x 1" plate to start making a sacrificial table or jig plate. It seems like with machining that there is always a new thing to add or try.

Oh, I also learned something about the smaller cutters. I snapped 2 3/16 mill cutters by running too fast on the feeds. Live and learn