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Pete,
Talk to Hoss2006, he made some really nice holders and a kick a$$ air operated power draw bar too!
Jeff...
I was looking at the tormach system on the little machine shop website and wishing I had the cash to buy the whole system and starting wondering how it all works and if it would be at all possible to make some holders for yourself. Has anyone ever tried this and how did you do it? I was thinking about buying the small kit with the collet and the setup part and just a few holders and then see if I can make some more from the specs. Whaddya think guys?....peace
Pete,
Talk to Hoss2006, he made some really nice holders and a kick a$$ air operated power draw bar too!
Jeff...
Patience and perseverance have a magical effect before which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish.
yea, and dont forget his ATC!
Grizzly X3, CNC Fusion Ballscrew kit, 3 500oz-in bipolar steppers, 3 203v Gecko's, Linear power supply from Hubbard CNC, Mach 3, BOBcad Pro Art V22, Rhino.
Yeah I actually did some searching on the web last night after I posted this and found that he made some and they look very nice. Any idea how he machined them? Were they cnc or manual because they look real nice. I was actually kinda wondering about the possibility of using the mill once it is cnc and machining some from drill rod bar stock by first machining the shank in the lathe for the 3/4inch by maybe 1.75 or whatever they are and then leaving the larger portion and parting off in the lathe. Then taking it over to the mill, inserting it in the mill and using the cnc to accurately machine the rest of the body. I just do not know enough about it to get it done just yet. Seems like if you made them this way they would have to be concentric and spin right in the mill after because they were made in the mill's spindle in the first place. Basically a drilling and boring operation on the vise vertically and then maybe some turning operations for the shape of the body and you're done.... what do you guys think? I know you can but an individual holder for less than 20.00 but if you wanna have a myriad of them around then it could get real expensive no? peace....
Hi Guy's,
was browsing his thread last nite....Very Interesting stuff!!
look Here:
Hoss ATC Project
The exterior dimensions are relatively unimportant. The difficult part is getting the tool socket diameter within the correct tolerance and also concentric and parallel to the tool arbor.
Other than that it's a piece of cake.
If you have a lathe then forget about using a mill, CNC or otherwise. You seem to be under the misapprehension that a CNC machine will automatically produce more accurate work than a manual machine.
Phil
Originally Posted by pete from TN
Philburs right, the most important part is getting the .750 arbor concentric
with the hole for the endmill.
I used a manual lathe with a 4 jaw chuck.
I turned the arbor end with the largest OD too so you know they are concentric.
Flip it around and leave a gap between the toolholder and the jaws so that you can indicate
the toolholder true and then indicate the OD.
Now you can turn the rest of the toolholder.
Drill out the endmill hole about .050 undersize, use a small boring bar to take it within .010 of the needed dia. (drilling alone won't be true enough)
then I used a ream the to take the trued hole to the finished dia.
The endmills slide in with no slop, they actually pop when I pull them out from the vacuum created.
Sounds like a lot of work probably but it's either spend some time or spend some money.
If you could use a collet chuck, it would make the process a lot faster, wouldn't have to indicate each time.
I have the prints and more pics here.
Hoss
http://www.hossmachine.info - Gosh, you've... really got some nice toys here. - Roy Batty -- http://www.g0704.com - http://www.bf20.com - http://www.g0602.com
that the cnc mill would produce more accurate work than manual? I really do not see it in my post after reading it again. The only reason I said that one could use the cnc mill to do the work was so that you could easily repeat the process for several toolholders and they would all be practically the same. I have a 12x36 lathe and have machined some pretty accurate parts on it over the years and obviously this could be done on the lathe but why would you not want to use the cnc and machine the toolholder in the spindle it was made for to ensure that it is gonna be concentric? I do not yet have a collet closer or collet chuck for my lathe but I do have a four jaw and three jaw chuck and a large faceplate.
Hoss I think your toolholders turned out great and they obviously work for you. I am also surprised that you did not make them on your little cnc mill considering your knowledge and ingenious uses of the machine as depicted here. What is your opinion of the system in general? Do you think that it is a good design and does it make the spindle more or less rigid in your machining operations would you say? I know that the repeatability thing is the major attraction for these holders but just wondering about your thoughts now that you have apparently used them for awhile. Have you any tormach ones or did you make everything, did you grind your own collet too? peace....
Though he did say "under the misapprehension that a CNC machine will automatically produce more accurate work than a manual machine" which I don't think really conveyed what he meant well. What I took it to mean (and what I think intended) was that doing it on a mill isn't the right tool to machine a shaft and then a hole on the opposite end concentric and parallel. On a lathe, with the procedure Hoss outlined, you'll get very high concentricity, thus eliminating shaft runout. On a mill you'd be very hard pressed, CNC or manual to keep both ends concentric and parallel with the changing around of parts setup. That's not saying it can't be done, but I'd personally do it on a lathe.
One question for Hoss - did you use carbide/HSS tooling on the arbor or did you use a toolpost grinder? Just curious after my experience with grinding the ballscrew shafts in my conversion.
Greg
Every day is a learning process, whether you remember yesterday or not is the hard part.
www.distinctperspectives.com
Actually, I think machining the outside, and the endmill bores could be done well on the mill, using a lathe tool and boring bar held vertically in a vise. If you were making several holders for the same size tool, you could program up one, sneaking up on the final bore dimension, then knock off several more in a few minutes. As you said, they should come out nice and concentric, without having to fiddle with a 4-jaw on the lathe. I think it's worth a try. You could absolutely do the outside shaping that way, after turning the shank on the lathe.
Regards,
Ray L.
I have run my lathe for years and of course you can machine some very nice and perfectly concentric pieces in it but to be able to make several iterations of the same basic part with little more than a program change would be pretty nice. Now of course if you think it is absolutely necessary to make the final cut with the reamer then you would have a tough time aligning it with the spindle I would suppose. But if it were possible to use a boring bar in the vise that would remain fixed thru the entire operations then it seems to me you should be able to machine a near perfect bore with absolute concentricity only affected by the spindles runout. As I have said before I have NO IDEA how to do this on the cnc yet but I think that once I get my machine running and work out the bugs it would be high on my priority list to do. I think it would basically have to be done with the same setup that has been shown here to make lathe turned parts like the cnc mill to lathe operations posted here and on the youtube. Just then setup basically three tools, a lathe tool, a center drill, a drill chuck, and a boring bar all vertically except the lathe tool of course. Peace.....
Pete,
You've got the right idea. I've used my mill that way a few times, and it's worked really well. One time I made a 12" diameter disc from 3/8" 6061 (for a large disc sander), starting with an octagonal blank I cut in a table saw. It came out perfect, and didn't take long at all. In this case, I think you'd save time by roughing it out on the lathe - drill the endmill hole as close as you can get to final size, then use the mill to do the finishing, taking very light cuts. I'd guess you could do a good job without having to ream. You'll have to write the G-code by hand, but it won't be more than a page of code.
Making some Tormach knock-off holders has been on my ToDo list for a while. I've got a handful of real ones I use every day, and they're great. I'd buy more, but being unemployed for 8 months now, things are a bit tight....
Regards,
Ray L.
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