X3 Specific tooling Q's

[rezcar]

In waiting for my X3 to show up at Harbor Freight, I've been trying to decide on tooling...which seems even harder than choosing a machine! Thankfully, others have posted their want lists as guides for me.

Specifically, when a machine's specs say "face mill capacity 3 inches", is that the overall diameter of the face miller? (Is it the same for fly cutters as that is what I want).

Say the specs show endmill capacity at 1", but if you have a large ER collet, can you hold larger than 1" -not that I am planning to. I guess what I am wondering is, what determines these capacities?

Also, what size Indicol holder fits the X3? A model number or "grip/clamp size" would help. I have a DTI 0-15-0 (I think) but don't know what the dovetail size is (or where to measure).

Thanks!

[scudzuki]

The capacities suggest the maximum size tool that should be utilized given the power and rigidity of the machine. I have end mills much larger than 1" with 3/4" shanks that can easily be held in the spindle of any machine with an R8 taper... doesn't mean that that machine has the power and rigidity to swing said tooling. I suspect that an x3 would be less than satisfactory trying to make a pass with either a 1" end mill or a 3" face mill with any significant DOC (depth of cut) in anything harder than plastic. A 2" flycutter for "planing" and 1/2" end mills will likely be the limit of that machine's work envelope.

Joe

[escott76]

Originally Posted by rezcar In waiting for my X3 to show up at Harbor Freight, I've been trying to decide on tooling...which seems even harder than choosing a machine! Thankfully, others have posted their want lists as guides for me. Specifically, when a machine's specs say "face mill capacity 3 inches", is that the overall diameter of the face miller? (Is it the same for fly cutters as that is what I want). Say the specs show endmill capacity at 1", but if you have a large ER collet, can you hold larger than 1" -not that I am planning to. I guess what I am wondering is, what determines these capacities? Also, what size Indicol holder fits the X3? A model number or "grip/clamp size" would help. I have a DTI 0-15-0 (I think) but don't know what the dovetail size is (or where to measure). Thanks!

The "specs" say a lot of things, much of which is designed to make perspective customers feel good about the "capabilities" of said mill. The realistic version is that you'll never actually use tools that large in a machine that size. Beyond the occasional face mill for small amounts of stock removal I think you'll find your use for larger tools is pretty much unnecessary using CNC.
Machines the size we are talking about here are limited by spindle horsepower, and overall machine rigidity. While you may be able to easily chuck a 1" end mill in the collet, you prolly don't have the horsepower or the rigidity to make use of it.

[rezcar]

Thanks guys, just as I thought it would be.

Anyone have any info on which Indicol holder fits this machine?

Also, for an R8 chuck endmill adapter. Are these the right ones? The wording seems different every site I go to.
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT...MT4NO=58712678


Also came across this, Indexable endmills. Are these indexable tools any good? I believe HSS is better for these smallish machines, can't tell if this is HSS or not. The codes are still a foreign language to me!
http://www.cdcotools.com/item.php?itemid=433


In looking at LMS' site, there is a starter kit.
Starter Set, Manual, Tormach Quick Change
http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...2441&category=
What is a...
Screw Adaptor?
Precision TTS-R8 collet? vs a regular R8 collet?
Do I need all this stuff?

They also have a basic R8 to ER-32 set. I don't know if I need all these sizes. But I've read somewhere that these ER collets can hold drill bits also, so having a wide range of sizes would be beneficial?

Collet & Chuck Set, R8, ER-32
http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...888&category=2

[rezcar]

Back to the capacity question,

X3 specs are 2" capacity for fly/face cutters. What dimension of the tool does this refer to? Diameter or shank diameter?
At Enco for example,
Type: R-8
Diameter (Inch): 2-1/2
Shank Diameter (Inch): 2-1/2
Tool Bit Size: 3/8

[escott76]

Originally Posted by rezcar Back to the capacity question, X3 specs are 2" capacity for fly/face cutters. What dimension of the tool does this refer to? Diameter or shank diameter? At Enco for example, Type: R-8 Diameter (Inch): 2-1/2 Shank Diameter (Inch): 2-1/2 Tool Bit Size: 3/8

They are talking about the diameter when discussing face mill capacity, not the shank.
As a personal preference I like to use the ER32 over the R8 for actual holding of tools. The ER32 has a much greater holding range, which in my experience gets a greater grip on the tool causing less slippage. I like all of the ER series for tool holding.

[ihavenofish]

Originally Posted by rezcar In looking at LMS' site, there is a starter kit. Starter Set, Manual, Tormach Quick Change http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...2441&category= What is a... Screw Adaptor? Precision TTS-R8 collet? vs a regular R8 collet? Do I need all this stuff?

you need the tormach collet because it has a ground flat nose. in theory you could make your own, but its probably not worth it.

[Enraged]

build your own set, much better than the sets imho. all you need to start with is

the tool height setting block: http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...gory=209730719
and the collet: http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...gory=209730719

add chucks (with adapters), ER tool holders, end mill holders, etc depending on what you need: http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...gory=209730719

I like the idea of having extras, so you can have things like center drills or edge finders that never get taken apart and are always ready to use.

[Matt McColley]

As much as I'd like ot set up with the Tormach system right out of the gate, this project is breaking the bank so fast for me that I simply decided to get a $35 R8 collet set from Enco.

I'll take the money I save and get the 2.5" R8 boring bar set from Grizzly and their cheap fly cutter set. As I figure that these tools will be used less frequently and I won't miss not having them set up for quick change.

That should get me by for some time.

[sansbury]

The Tormach system is really nice, and for a lot of people, the collet holders (which aren't cheap) aren't really essential. You can also make your own drill chuck holders and such on a lathe and save a few more $.

It really isn't necessary though until you get to programs which require tool changes and you want to use a tool length table. This is useful, but definitely not something you need to get into for a while if you're new to CNC. And you can do tool changes in a program without a TTS-type system, but it is a lot faster and less error-prone.

[rezcar]

Originally Posted by escott76 They are talking about the diameter when discussing face mill capacity, not the shank. As a personal preference I like to use the ER32 over the R8 for actual holding of tools. The ER32 has a much greater holding range, which in my experience gets a greater grip on the tool causing less slippage. I like all of the ER series for tool holding.

So I can hold fly cutters etc with the ER collets? I thought I was limited to endmills, drills, only.

[rezcar]

Originally Posted by Matt McColley As much as I'd like ot set up with the Tormach system right out of the gate, this project is breaking the bank so fast for me that I simply decided to get a $35 R8 collet set from Enco. I'll take the money I save and get the 2.5" R8 boring bar set from Grizzly and their cheap fly cutter set. As I figure that these tools will be used less frequently and I won't miss not having them set up for quick change. That should get me by for some time.

I am leaning toward this route too, buying only certain shank sizes of tooling. I will switch to ER-XX later if the need arises. At which point I plan to only buy the ER collets I really need.

Or, does everyone think I'll need to move to ER-XX anyway, and might as well do it now rather than spending money on two sets of tooling families?