Newbie- Introduction and getting started?

[vonnieda]

Hi folks, my name's Jason. I'm brand new to machining, mills, CNC and the entire lot. My father was a machinist all his life and I spent some time at the shop with him when I was a kid but aside from that I know nothing.

I'm getting into machining because I just generally like to make things and I specifically want to make a nice enclosure for a little electronics project I am working on. What I'd like to do is take a sheet of approx 1/8" aluminum, cut a square hole from the center and round the corners, then round the outside corners, drill 4 countersunk holes, bend it to form a stand and then anodize the whole mess. I realize I could do all of that by hand with cheaper tools but I'd like to be able to repeat it and be very accurate.

I'm also interested in being able to make molds for casting of urethane resins and basically anything else I can dream up

So, I've been doing a lot of research for the past few weeks, looking at different machines and deals and trying to learn a little something here and there. I think I've convinced myself that I can do the things I want to do with a CNC mill. I was originally considering trying to build/buy/borrow/steal a laser cutter since I felt like that would be the "right" tool to cut sheets of aluminum with but after spending some time reading it seems like I can do that plus more with a small mill, so that's where I am heading.

So with all that said, I'm looking at buying the Taig 2019ER with a Gecko setup from deepgroove1. I've done a ton of reading on this site and others and it seems like it's a good price, and fairly foolproof. I understand there were/are some problems with deepgroove1's custom controller but the Gecko setup seems to be a pretty safe bet.

I'm also looking at some books to familiarize myself with machining in general. So far I've seen some good things about Machining Fundamentals.

So, if you are still reading, are any of my assumptions wrong up there? Will I be able to do the things I mentioned with that tool? Is that book any good, or are there better ones for a total newbie? And also, if I wanted to start messing around with some stainless steel, can I cut it with that machine?

Jason

[project5k]

cutting the parts shouldnt be a major issue, thing is you need to figure out if the travels on that machine are large enough to cut the outline of the parts you want to cut.

also, it has been my experience that bending alum is tough at best. could you machine the parts and then screw them together rather than bending?

[escott76]

Originally Posted by vonnieda Hi folks, my name's Jason. I'm brand new to machining, mills, CNC and the entire lot. My father was a machinist all his life and I spent some time at the shop with him when I was a kid but aside from that I know nothing. I'm getting into machining because I just generally like to make things and I specifically want to make a nice enclosure for a little electronics project I am working on. What I'd like to do is take a sheet of approx 1/8" aluminum, cut a square hole from the center and round the corners, then round the outside corners, drill 4 countersunk holes, bend it to form a stand and then anodize the whole mess. I realize I could do all of that by hand with cheaper tools but I'd like to be able to repeat it and be very accurate. I'm also interested in being able to make molds for casting of urethane resins and basically anything else I can dream up So, I've been doing a lot of research for the past few weeks, looking at different machines and deals and trying to learn a little something here and there. I think I've convinced myself that I can do the things I want to do with a CNC mill. I was originally considering trying to build/buy/borrow/steal a laser cutter since I felt like that would be the "right" tool to cut sheets of aluminum with but after spending some time reading it seems like I can do that plus more with a small mill, so that's where I am heading. So with all that said, I'm looking at buying the Taig 2019ER with a Gecko setup from deepgroove1. I've done a ton of reading on this site and others and it seems like it's a good price, and fairly foolproof. I understand there were/are some problems with deepgroove1's custom controller but the Gecko setup seems to be a pretty safe bet. I'm also looking at some books to familiarize myself with machining in general. So far I've seen some good things about Machining Fundamentals. So, if you are still reading, are any of my assumptions wrong up there? Will I be able to do the things I mentioned with that tool? Is that book any good, or are there better ones for a total newbie? And also, if I wanted to start messing around with some stainless steel, can I cut it with that machine? Jason

Although you are correct in thinking that a small mill is more versatile, if all you want to do is cut sheet like that for forming boxes, you are going to be hard pressed to beat a laser. Good laser will cut 300+ipm, depending on material. The 4000W at work will cut 3/4" steel plate at 30ipm, but that is a big machine. Anyway, sheet metal is much quicker and easier cut on a laser.
I'm not trying to discourage your mill purchase as I think it's a great idea, just provide some info for anyone interested. Everyone needs a copy of Machineries Handbook. To save a couple bucks scope out an older version on eBay or Amazon. It's handy to have for all sorts of stuff.

[vonnieda]

Originally Posted by escott76 Although you are correct in thinking that a small mill is more versatile, if all you want to do is cut sheet like that for forming boxes, you are going to be hard pressed to beat a laser. Good laser will cut 300+ipm, depending on material. The 4000W at work will cut 3/4" steel plate at 30ipm, but that is a big machine. Anyway, sheet metal is much quicker and easier cut on a laser. I'm not trying to discourage your mill purchase as I think it's a great idea, just provide some info for anyone interested. Everyone needs a copy of Machineries Handbook. To save a couple bucks scope out an older version on eBay or Amazon. It's handy to have for all sorts of stuff.

I'd love to have a laser, but I have not run across any in nearly the price range of the mill. Am I looking in the wrong places? The mill I am looking at (or even a step or two up) stays under 5k and I have not seen any metal cutting lasers for under 10k. Are there hobbiest grade lasers out there I should be looking at?

[escott76]

Originally Posted by vonnieda I'd love to have a laser, but I have not run across any in nearly the price range of the mill. Am I looking in the wrong places? The mill I am looking at (or even a step or two up) stays under 5k and I have not seen any metal cutting lasers for under 10k. Are there hobbiest grade lasers out there I should be looking at?

Not that are gonna cut the kind of metal you want. The lasers we have at work are big, a pair of 5'x10' beds each, plus the resonator itself. Big tanks of assist gas outside too, definitely not for home use. For your purposes a mill is a much better choice. I'm just presenting it as information, as sometimes it's just helpful to understand how different processes compare in terms of efficiency.
Unless you run into really high volumes (in which case you can pay someone with a laser and a brake to make it for you) the mill is going to be a much more cost effective tool for smaller runs.

[vonnieda]

Originally Posted by project5k cutting the parts shouldnt be a major issue, thing is you need to figure out if the travels on that machine are large enough to cut the outline of the parts you want to cut. also, it has been my experience that bending alum is tough at best. could you machine the parts and then screw them together rather than bending?

p5k, your message has got me thinking about buying a bigger machine and either doing a conversion or just biting the bullet and buying a full kit. I priced out a similar machine to what you have in your sig and it looks like around $2500 without any incidentals or other things I'm not thinking of. Does that sound about right?

When I originally started down this path I kind of had my heart set on a Syil X4 and it seems like I am slowly headed back to it. It's a lot of money but it seems like a really excellent machine that would probably handle any job I ever need to throw at it.

[project5k]

hehe you know, i quit keeping track of the $$ when i bought the mill, cause at that point, it was just something else that the wife could nag me about. No but really, yea, i guess that sounds close, not counting software. and dont forget all the tooling. you can get a decent starter kit of endmills from several places, enco, littlemachineshop, and there are others, that will get you started, but you'll also need collets, hold downs, and have you thought about coolant? or where your gonna put the mill? in my case, i started off with a blank 2400 sq-ft shop, so i just made a 10x10 room under the loft, built all the workbenches, the coolant drain pan, put in an airconditioner, insulation, lights, and all that just for this mil and my lathes.

I did all my own work, just cause that part of it really interested me. I went with the cnc fusion kit, cause it was the best bang for the buck, i suggest going with the gecko 203v's just cause of how tough they are.

the bottom line is, your on the right path, figure out what you want it to do, and then work backwards toward what you need to get it done. I will say this, if you do build it, rather than buying it, you will have a far greater understanding of what it is that you have, and how to use it, and what its limitations are. Plus by the time your done building it, if something does go wrong, you know what to do to fix it, and your not calling someone for warrenty work, when you and i both know that there are very few companies out there that give a damn after they get the sale.

[Crevice Reamer]

Hi vonnieda. Welcome to the Zone!

I think you really will want the $3600 CNC ready Novakon NM-135:

http://novakon.net/3.html

Converting X3:

$1150 X3 mill.
$1000 CNCFusion Deluxe kit.
$0800 G203V electonics, BOB and PSU.
$0500 miscelaneous.
-------
$3450.00 Cost of converting X3.

CNC Ready Novakon NM-135:

$3600 Novakon Industrial quality CNC ready mill. Includes stand, 3 N34 motors and motor cables.
$0800 G203V electronics.
-------
$4400 Ready to make chips.

CR.

[project5k]

hmm i guess prices have changed since i got mine,,,
i paid under 1k for the mill, including shipping, liftgate and all...
i paid about 500 for the cncfusion kit, i didnt get the delux, didnt see the need for what i'm doing
i paid around 450 for geckos, around 100 for the psu and used a 25 buck bob
so thats 2075 + tooling, hold downs, coolant system, and software. ofcourse i ended up paying around 750 for my bobcad... oh and dont forget Mach3, wire, solder, screws, a case for the psu and drivers,

oops, forgot motors.. thats important.. i paid around 150 for all 3 of my steppers.

oh, and dont forget the bandaids... trust me your gonna need em. you might think i'm crazy, but the first time you bump into an endmill thats still chucked up, and it slices you good and deep, you'll learn what i did. THEM THINGS ARE MIGHTY SHARP!

oh, and dont forget the face shield, cause at first, when you start cutting, your gonna just stand there and watch it, and the chips will be flying, and sooner or later, DOINK you got metal in the eye... and just let me tell you this much, when they come at your eyeball with that dremel lookn and soundn thing in the dr office, you'll remember some eye protection.. go ahead, ask me how i know that one!

[Matt McColley]

For some of us little guys out here, a thousand bucks is a thousand bucks....
and two thousand bucks is twice that....

$1,089 Grizzly mill delivered
$ 225 Gecko G540 (over stock sale)
$ 150 (3) 387 oz NEMA 23s
$ 60 48 VDC power supply.
$ 190 rolled ball screw and nuts from NOOK (per CAD Monkeys plans)
$ ??? Aluminum stock for the motor and screw mounts.
$ ??? ATBs
$ ??? Ham Mic. plugs and wire
$ ??? Limit switches

The satisfaction and learning benefit of doing it yourself = $ priceless $

[Crevice Reamer]

Originally Posted by Matt McColley For some of us little guys out here, a thousand bucks is a thousand bucks.... and two thousand bucks is twice that.... $1,089 Grizzly mill delivered $ 225 Gecko G540 (over stock sale) $ 150 (3) 387 oz NEMA 23s $ 60 48 VDC power supply. $ 190 rolled ball screw and nuts from NOOK (per CAD Monkeys plans) $ ??? Aluminum stock for the motor and screw mounts. $ ??? ATBs $ ??? Ham Mic. plugs and wire $ ??? Limit switches The satisfaction and learning benefit of doing it yourself = $ priceless $

If your Z axis drive with 387 works out--You are the gunia pig--Priceless. If not, then may cost some more.

I'm rooting for YOU Matt!

CR.

[Matt McColley]

If your Z axis drive with 387 works out--You are the gunia pig--Priceless. If not, then may cost some more.

That's one reason why I'm leaning towards an economy ball screw build... to elliminate the inefficiency of the ACME screws.

I just couldn't resist the simplicity of that little G540. To "cute".

Besides, I think I can live with a slow Z.

I'm rooting for YOU Matt!

I appreciate that.