Looking for opinions

[SWC]

Looking to buy a 3 in 1 machine( Ithink) looking for some advice. Looking at a Patriot or a smithy. would like to have CNC capabilties. Any body have some advice on these models or any other models? Thanks

[HimyKabibble]

Originally Posted by SWC Looking to buy a 3 in 1 machine( Ithink) looking for some advice. Looking at a Patriot or a smithy. would like to have CNC capabilties. Any body have some advice on these models or any other models? Thanks

Other than "don't"? 3-in-1 machines make a lot of compromises, and can be quite inconvenient to work on, as you spend half your time re-configuring the machine, rather than doing useful work. I bought a Grizzly G0516, which is basically a Sieg C6 lathe with an X2 mini-mill column and head bolted to the back of the ways. Milling capacity was quite limited, and converting from mill to lathe and back got very tiresome very quickly. Fortunately, on the G0516, there is a simple solution - Remove the mill column, and for $150 buy the X2 X-Y table from LMS, and you have a C6 lathe and a stand-alone X2 mini-mill, which was very nice, and still cheaper than buying the two separate machines. I still use the lathe, but retired the mill about 18 months ago when I bought a knee mill.

Regards,
Ray L.

[SWC]

Ray, What would you suggest? I need a mill as well as a lathe to do the work that I plan on doing. I also have limited floor space. Thanks

[HimyKabibble]

Originally Posted by SWC Ray, What would you suggest? I need a mill as well as a lathe to do the work that I plan on doing. I also have limited floor space. Thanks

Depending on what you're doing, a 3-in-1 might be OK. If you'll spend 90% of your time either turning or milling, then the changeover time won't be a big deal. If it's more like 50-50, it'll get old real fast. Also, the milling capability should be examined carefully. I know the travel on my G-0516 was limited, and I was constantly butting into the travel limits. Don't assume because you have 5" of travel, you'll be able to make something 5" wide - you won't. Just like a 9" swing lathe is really limited to something more like 5-6".

Make sure you know the limitations up front. I didn't when I bought my machine, so it was a learning experience. I don't regret my choice at all, but if I knew then what I know now, I would've done a lot of things differently.

I don't know what the Smithy costs, but you can get an X2 mini-mill for a little over $500 (maybe less on sale), and a 9x20 lathe for about $600-700. And both have VERY active user communities, so you'll be able to get lots and lots of help and support, service tips, upgrades, etc.

Whatever you get, you should find some owners who can tell you the strong points and weak points of the machine before you buy. CNCZone and the many Yahoo groups are good places to start.

Regards,
Ray L.

[SWC]

Ray, thanks for the info. I am mostly turning plastic parts. Half of the time will be spent on the lathe and the other half on the mill. I would like for it to be cnc as well as manuel. Manuel for prototyping and cnc for production. I am not familiar with the models you have suggested. Unfortunetely you are the only one who has responded to my questions. I have not found alot of info on either machines from end users. Thanks

[HimyKabibble]

Originally Posted by SWC Ray, thanks for the info. I am mostly turning plastic parts. Half of the time will be spent on the lathe and the other half on the mill. I would like for it to be cnc as well as manuel. Manuel for prototyping and cnc for production. I am not familiar with the models you have suggested. Unfortunetely you are the only one who has responded to my questions. I have not found alot of info on either machines from end users. Thanks

I'm surprised more people haven't responded. Usually people just love arguing a what the very best machine is!

Here's the machine I bought:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Comb...tachment/G0516

AFAIK, this machine is available only from Grizzly. The mill attachment is the column and head from a Sieg X2 mini-mill:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=44991

This identical machine is available from Harbor Freight, Enco, and about a dozen other places. The only differences between different machines is some have an R-8 spindle, while others are Morse taper (MT3). Parts and upgrades are available from LittleMachineShop.com (where I bought the X-Y table when I removed the mill from the lathe). The Yahoo GrizHFMiniMill group is a great place to get information.

This is the most common hobby lathe:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/9-x-...ch-Lathe/G4000

This is also available from a wide range of sources, and all are basically identical, except in some cases there are differences in the included accessories. You'll see it at various places listed as a 9x18, 9x19, or 9x20. On sale at H-F, you can get this for as little as $600. The Yahoo 9x20Lathe group is the best place for information.

Lots of people have CNC'd all of these machines. I CNC'd my mini-mill. So, there are lots of free designs out there, and whole conversion kits you can buy and just bolt on.

Regards,
Ray L.

[HimyKabibble]

BTW - What is your budget? Both for initial purchase, and eventual CNC conversions? What are the largest parts you anticipate making?

Regards,
Ray L.

[SWC]

I will check out the links you provided. I just want a complete unit ready to go. Any idea's as to where I can find one of those? Thanks again

[SWC]

Would like to keep the budget around 8k total. The biggest piece I think will be aprox 10*6. Thanks again

[HimyKabibble]

Originally Posted by SWC Would like to keep the budget around 8k total. The biggest piece I think will be aprox 10*6. Thanks again

10x6 is well beyond the capabilities of the mini mill. You'd have to go to something closer to an RF45 for that:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Mill...-Machine/G0519

RF45 mills are available from all the usuals as well, and often go on sale for about $1400, especially at Enco. They're very nice machine.

Remember, the stated axis travels are *not* the max work size - you'll lose room to clamps, etc. so figure on losing an inch or two.

$8K is a reasonable, budget, especially if that includes the CNC conversion. Figure on spending close to $2K on accessories - tooling, vises, collets, etc. by the time you're done. The mill CNC conversion will cost you between $500-1000, depending on how much work youre willing to do. The lathe probably a bit less, and you can use the same computer, power supplies, motor drivers, etc. for both to save money.

The smart thing to do it buy the biggest machine you can afford, so you don't outgrow it. With an 8K budget, I would definitely go for an RF45. It's a large machine, but FAR more capable than the smaller ones, and nicely made. Next step up from that is something MUCH bigger - like a Bridgeport sized knee mill.

Regards,
Ray L.

[SWC]

That machine does not have a lathe. i will need a lathe to do the work I do. Why do you not like the 3 in 1? Thanks

[escott76]

Originally Posted by SWC That machine does not have a lathe. i will need a lathe to do the work I do. Why do you not like the 3 in 1? Thanks

Because the 3 in 1 machines generally compromise so much of each function that they are difficult to use.
There is a lot to designing a machine tool, and these things affect how that tool functions and what it can do. Bolting a milling column and head to the side of a lathe will allow you to do more than just a lathe, this much is true, but it will not do the same job as a mill. It does not have the rigidity that a purpose built milling machine has.
Most modern lathes are built only anticipating load being applied through the work to the cutting tool downward into the bed. There is no "up" pull from the tool. Milling machines undergo different loads as the cut progresses. You have to take this into account as well. Using a lathe bed for a milling machine XY base is a poor choice.
Typical 3 in 1's make their compromises for people who want to spend as little as humanly possible to get all the functions. It looks attractive, and for someone who has none of them, it's better than nothing.
If you are serious about this, you'll be better served with separate machines.