New mill purchase advice

[scarr]

Hi all,

I am about to purchase a benchtop mill and before I did I wanted a little feedback on my choice.

http://www.cncmasters.com/cncbaron.html

I will have to have it imported as I live in UK and after working out total cost it will work out at about £6700 (GBP)

Please feel free to coment and even suggest anything better for price.

I intend to prototype, make molds and do one off special work in Aluminumum, plastic and mild steel. I might even attempt making PCB's with it. I like this mill because it looks easy to get up and running quickly, I'm more of a "do it on CAD and then just let the machine get on with it" person.

Thanks

[Cube3]

This looks pretty much exactly the same machine I have just bought from Warco UK. I have bought a manual Machine, GH Universal. There are quite a few of these machines around branded under different names. It seems quite a good machine with just a few drawbacks, the spindle speed is too slow for carbide cutters so HSS only and the Z axis has quite a heavy gearbox and motor to deal with. If you order this machine, let me know how you get on, be very interested how a CNC'nd version works out. Simon

[scarr]

OK after posting I searched the forum for the Baron and found people saying that the "Personal CNC 1100" and "SmithyCNC" are better, I thought I had found what I wanted now I'm confused again

Anyway please comment and I'll try to understand / take onboard what your saying, wouldn't it be just great if 30 people posted a reply saying "get XXX machine its the best" then I could simply buy it with confidence, but I suppose life is not that easy

Thanks on advance.

[philbur]

5" z-axis travel on the quill, 1600 rpm spindle with 60hz is going to be proportionally lower on 50hz and for mold making and work in alumiium it's going tbe a real pain. It doesn't appear to have a complete set of way covers or a one shot oiler. Also I can't find details of max feeds or rapids.

Well here's vote 1 of 30. Buy a Tormach PCNC1100, I shipped one to Norway and love it. Check the Tormach forum on here and on Yahoo, plus the Tormach web site.

IH is another possibility but more expensive if you want "out of the box up and running". I don't have any experience with this machine but many users seem to be very happy with it.

Regards
Phil

Originally Posted by scarr Hi all, I am about to purchase a benchtop mill and before I did I wanted a little feedback on my choice. http://www.cncmasters.com/cncbaron.html I will have to have it imported as I live in UK and after working out total cost it will work out at about £6700 (GBP) Please feel free to coment and even suggest anything better for price. I intend to prototype, make molds and do one off special work in Aluminumum, plastic and mild steel. I might even attempt making PCB's with it. I like this mill because it looks easy to get up and running quickly, I'm more of a "do it on CAD and then just let the machine get on with it" person. Thanks

[HimyKabibble]

What on earth is the logic behind making a small mill with only a 2000RPM spindle? So many of these small machines have such limited spindle speed they'd be nearly useless! A little machine like this should have a 6-10K RPM spindle.

Regards,
Ray L.

[philbur]

It's because the base machine is a manual mill/drill with a gearbox.

I think this will be the next big change since the introduction of the square column. Surely a VFD and belt drive can't cost that much more to make than a gearbox. Then your speed limit is only dictated by the price you are prepared to pay for the spindle. I quess machines like the X4 are already moving in that direction, I think the rest will soon follow.

Phil

Originally Posted by HimyKabibble What on earth is the logic behind making a small mill with only a 2000RPM spindle? So many of these small machines have such limited spindle speed they'd be nearly useless! A little machine like this should have a 6-10K RPM spindle. Regards, Ray L.

[ataxy]

yep i think to, you can allready see IH is offering there mill with an optional vfd motor

[MichaelHenry]

I think this will be the next big change since the introduction of the square column. Surely a VFD and belt drive can't cost that much more to make than a gearbox.

Looks like they already have a VFD option - $750, I think.

In addition to the spindle speed and Z travel limitations you mentioned, the claimed accuracy of 0.003" in 12" doesn't sound so hot either.

Mike

[philbur]

Hi Mike and ataxy,

My point is that the gearbox should be dumped and replaced with a VFD and a couple of pulleys. The gearbox costs $$$, consumes hp stirring oil and limits the max rpm. Most RF45’s are limited to 2,000 rpm or less. The IH does very well to get to 3,600 rpm but that’s it. The only advantage of the gearbox over a VFD is that it gives you massive low-end torque, which is great on a heavy-duty horizontal mill with outboard spindle support. On a low-mass vertical mill it's a mismatch, you can't use the low end grunt due to lack of rigidity. Machines with relatively low rigidity perform best with small diameter cutters running at high rpm. This argument applies even more to very low-mass machines, like an X2 for example.

Just some personal thoughts, not trying to upset anybody, but interested to here other reasoned opinions.

Phil

Originally Posted by MichaelHenry Looks like they already have a VFD option - $750, I think. In addition to the spindle speed and Z travel limitations you mentioned, the claimed accuracy of 0.003" in 12" doesn't sound so hot either. Mike

[ataxy]

Originally Posted by philbur Hi Mike and ataxy, My point is that the gearbox should be dumped and replaced with a VFD and a couple of pulleys. The gearbox costs $$$, consumes hp stirring oil and limits the max rpm. Most RF45’s are limited to 2,000 rpm or less. The IH does very well to get to 3,600 rpm but that’s it. The only advantage of the gearbox over a VFD is that it gives you massive low-end torque, which is great on a heavy-duty horizontal mill with outboard spindle support. On a low-mass vertical mill it's a mismatch, you can't use the low end grunt due to lack of rigidity. Machines with relatively low rigidity perform best with small diameter cutters running at high rpm. This argument applies even more to very low-mass machines, like an X2 for example. Just some personal thoughts, not trying to upset anybody, but interested to here other reasoned opinions. Phil

i totally agree with you
edit: by the way that 5'' of travel is a bit ridiculous in my point of view

[philbur]

Agreed but the 5" limit depends on the class of work you intend to do. For me the big issue with using the quill for Z is lack of rigidity when extended plus how do you adjust slack when it wears, or more probably when it arrives new with slack already in it. The sloppy rack and pinion drive doesn't really lend itself to precise CNC control either.

Phil

Originally Posted by ataxy edit: by the way that 5'' of travel is a bit ridiculous in my point of view

[HimyKabibble]

"by the way that 5'' of travel is a bit ridiculous in my point of view" - You do realize even a Bridgeport has only 5" of quill travel? Seems to be quite adequate for them....

Regards,
Ray L.