Hi there - newbie with questions!

[rjmmusic]

Hello all, I'm an electrical engineer and programmer and I make electronics for guitar players. I'm looking in to the possibility of buying a CNC mill to cut and possibly engrave front and rear panels for some of my products. I've had some shops quote the work and the prices are high enough that I'm wondering if it would be cost effective to do it myself. I've done a bunch of reading here, and have gotten the gist of what this is all about, but all the information is a little overwhelming! I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction so I can narrow down my search.

The material would be working is aluminum, no more than 1/8" thick, frequently thinner. I may possibly work with mild steel as well, 18ga or 20ga. Most panels would be small - 4"x2", although having X travel of at least 15" would provide for future needs.

So, my question is, what machine is capable enough for my needs? I don't want it to be any more expensive or large than it needs to be, but from reading here I know that the smallest machines wouldn't be suited to the job. I have a budget of around $5000, maybe a little more if needed, but beyond that it may no longer be cost effective for me. I have access to all sorts of computers, so at least I probably wouldn't have to buy another to run the machine.

Thanks in advance for all your help!

[HimyKabibble]

You don't have a lot of choices for turn-key CNC mills in that price range, but I would take a good long look at this one:

http://www.syilamerica.com/product_X4_standard.asp

The price is right, and it should be more than capable of doing what you describe.

Regards,
Ray L.

[ataxy]

yep in that price range you wont have much of a choice aside from the syil X4/X4+ or seig KX3 thats about it

[TOTALLYRC]

Don't forget the $1000 dollars you will spend on tooling. It seems that no matter what you buy for tooling, you willl need a differnet tool for the next job.
I looked at the link provided, but didn't see much else but the machine listed for that price.
You will need, drill chucks, vise, collets,endmil holders and a host of other stuff, It doesn't come with the flood coolant system, just add another $295 or something.

When getting ready to drop some coin, make sure you have all the facts.
Or at least know what you will actually spend before you have enough stuff to make the parts that you want.

Mike

[Teyber12]

perhaps this is ridiculous-

what about the taig 2019
or, for less work,
the taig 2019CR-ER
for $1,150 or so, with a gecko 540 controller?

12" x not 15" but for that price, isn't the taig great for engraving and detail work?

this is just speculation. sorry if im way off

[Stepper Monkey]

Nah, your not off at all. For that sized work the Taig would indeed handle the work very capably, for small volumes anyway. However, if he is planning to do production level volumes the X4 would probably be the best bet, as not only would the shorter cycle times amortize out the extra cost pretty quickly, the long term maintenance benefits of having ballscrews would also be of advantage with the demands of full production duty cycles.

[philbur]

What about the influence of spindle speed on cycle time, especially when engraving.

Phil

Originally Posted by Stepper Monkey if he is planning to do production level volumes the X4 would probably be the best bet, as not only would the shorter cycle times amortize out the extra cost pretty quickly.

[Stepper Monkey]

A Taig can do both the cutting, and does have the higher spindle speed necessary for engraving too. So it can do both in one simple package with only one spindle, but the cutting isn't going to be quite as fast as with an X4, and while the spindle can do engraving well (11k RPM) it's still not quite up to as high of speed as is optimal with a dedicated engraver spindle (18-25k RPM).

For a small simple all-in-one package its perfect. For higher production volume it might do better to have either a larger machine like the X4 with an additional dedicated secondary engraving spindle bolted on, or for really high volume even better having two machines - a separate CNC milling machine and CNC engraving machine.

That is all going to come to a cost benefit breakdown based on his business model. My guess is that the problem is actually that the volume is too low to effectively outsource. I would assume the products are likely rather custom and problems with the cost of setting up the very small limited runs is killing him, and not the opposite in that the unit volume is so high that he wants to bring manufacture in house to cut out a supplier. That would make the smaller machine a whole lot more attractive in that case. Am I correct there RJM, or did I misread your market?

[rjmmusic]

Thanks very much for all of the info!

Regarding my production size, a "normal" run of a product is 100, but I would like to get into some more specialized small runs and one-off custom things.

I've attached a sample drawing of one panel. Is it reasonable to do maybe a thousand like that per year with either the Taig or Syil machines?

Is there anywhere I can get a list of what I really need to get a functional setup? It would be very helpful to get an idea of what everything will really cost me.

[TOTALLYRC]

Originally Posted by rjmmusic Thanks very much for all of the info! Regarding my production size, a "normal" run of a product is 100, but I would like to get into some more specialized small runs and one-off custom things. I've attached a sample drawing of one panel. Is it reasonable to do maybe a thousand like that per year with either the Taig or Syil machines? Is there anywhere I can get a list of what I really need to get a functional setup? It would be very helpful to get an idea of what everything will really cost me.

If you run 5 at a time, and you run 10 batches at a sitting,
Thats 20 days of machining out of the year.
You might put some miles on a little machine, but I think it is doable.

[ataxy]

you could always go with the new high speed x4

http://www.syil.ca/?p=products&id=x4s

[rjmmusic]

Hmm.... so I've been mulling this over and in many ways the X4 looks like the way to go - I just realized that I'd get even more use out of the machine by using it to cut holes in pre-made rack panels, which I have to do by hand from time to time. The panels are 19" x 3.5". As long as I only need to make cuts within a 15.5" span, the X4 would work, correct?

The only problem I see is that the X4 doesn't seem suited to engraving (too slow). There is a faster X4 now, but is it too fast for normal milling? I noticed that the low end of the speed range is much higher than the standard X4. (What is the ideal speed for milling aluminum and mild steel, anyway?)

Thanks again folks for helping me get up to speed (pun intended!)