Newbie- CNC conversion while keeping on using machine

[katit]

Hi!

I see most conversions where manual controls being removed. I wonder if there any way to convert to CNC but leave all manual controls in case I want to machine manually something quick.

Is there any potential issues with this approach? Maybe I'm overlooking something? Conversion can take some time and I'd like to do it step by step if possible while keeping machine operational.

Thanks!
Ivan

[hoss2006]

Hey Ivan,
Several of us use dual shaft steppers which allow using a small handle for manual control, others mount the stepper off to the side with a belt drive to keep the original handles.
One note: If you convert using right hand ballscrews (the most common)
the table travel will be opposite of normal manual control,
a bit confusing but could be gotten used to.
Hoss

[katit]

As long as ball screws have same step - I don't think opposite direction will be of an issue..

From what I understand - there is no ready kit's for such conversions? I will have to do it all myself, correct?

Due to weight - I will be looking at X2 from Grizzly as a candidate

[hoss2006]

Cncfusion has kits that if you use dual shaft motors you can still use it manually.

[BrassBuilder]

I had the exact same concern as you...I wanted manual controls on my CNC X2 milling machine after I CNCd it.

Want to know how many times I have used the mill manually since the conversion a year ago?

Zero. Zip. Nada.

In fact, I never even put the handles back on my machine (and I used dual shaft motors just to be able to put handles on). If you need a quick part machined, you can either just jog the table over manually using the keyboard or input the coordinates into the command line of your software (easy to do once you learn some simple G-Code).

I use the G-code if I have to mill something to a certain depth. I usually use the keyboard if I am just facing off a part. Trust me, it is a lot more fun pressing one key and watching the table move than turning that handle. LOL.

Personally...I would not worry about keeping manual control.

Mike

[katit]

Aha. I didn't know that I can do it with software. It sure sounds cool.

I should probably search, but is there any DIY guide that lists ALL components I need. For example CNCFusion sells hardware only, but I need motors, control board, etc.

What I want is to minimize "down time" if possible. So I can order all stuff together and build it. That will work, otherwise, one axes by one I can do that with manual controls and all will be well without PC or control board.

[BrassBuilder]

Here is what I went with for my X2:

The cncfusion #4 kit with the pre-loaded ballscrews.
The keling #C kit (NEMA 23) with the 425 oz steppers per their recommendations.
The LMS belt conversion (I figured I was going to need it sooner or later)
A 4" rotary table, index plate and tailstock from LMS while I was at it.


And here is the link to the thread that I started when I first thought about my own conversion:

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showth...t=49340&page=5

There is a lot of good info in there.

What mill do you have or are you looking at? From my own experience, I would get all the parts you need, tear the thing down to the last bolt, clean everything, and then put it back together using the CNC hardware. Do it and get it done at once. I spent about two weeks building mine. That was a few hours a couple of evenings and some weekend time. The wiring was the most confusing part for me.

Mike

[katit]

Originally Posted by BrassBuilder Here is what I went with for my X2: The cncfusion #4 kit with the pre-loaded ballscrews. The keling #C kit (NEMA 23) with the 425 oz steppers per their recommendations. The LMS belt conversion (I figured I was going to need it sooner or later) A 4" rotary table, index plate and tailstock from LMS while I was at it. And here is the link to the thread that I started when I first thought about my own conversion: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showth...t=49340&page=5 There is a lot of good info in there. What mill do you have or are you looking at? From my own experience, I would get all the parts you need, tear the thing down to the last bolt, clean everything, and then put it back together using the CNC hardware. Do it and get it done at once. I spent about two weeks building mine. That was a few hours a couple of evenings and some weekend time. The wiring was the most confusing part for me. Mike

Mike,

I'm off to reading your post
Could you just guesstimate what you spent total on conversion? Would you buy ready unit now instead of doing conversion? I like to tinker and learn, but if savings are not there - it's probably not worth it..

[BrassBuilder]

Well...lets see...I'm not sure I even want to know what I spent...LOL

I had something like $1050 posted on my initial figures. That was the CNCfusion kit with ballnuts, the Keling motors, and Mach3 for the licensed version of the software controller.

After spending that, I added to the order:

I added a belt drive conversion ($100 or so)
A dedicated computer for the mill ($60 shipped from ebay)
An enclosure with flood coolant ($150 or so with the pump, metal, tubing....)
I bought the parts to start and stop the flood coolant from Mach3 but only have it half put together (another $100).

I bought the mill on ebay from Cummins Tools for around $400.

You could save a few bucks by not buying the ballnuts ($40 each and I needed one for each axis). If you have a computer, you would be good to go there. You can use "free" software for the controller and CAM, but I wasn't too impressed with any of the free stuff. I eventually bought TurboCad Pro 12 with the CAM plug-in on ebay for $200. I also bought Dolphin Cad/Cam for another $200. I usually use Dolphin Cad for most of my machining stuff. I like both programs.

I suppose you could go through $2000 pretty fast if you went the same route I did.

But...keep in mind that if you have NO tooling for your mill. Throw another $4-500 into the total.

As far as buying ready to go...yeah...I would do that, but this looked like a really good learning experience. If anything goes wrong with the mill, I think I could figure it out after building this thing.

Although...I am sort of drooling over a Tormach and their Duality Lathe right now....sigh....

If you decide to go with an X3, throw about another $1000 into the figures.

Mike

[katit]

Cool. Makes sense. I read your topic, lot's of head scratching
But you never updated on progress. I assume after you got parts it was just a matter of putting it all together?

X3 is out of question for me at least for a year+
I'm planning on having thing setup in a basement and we slowly looking for a new house, so I don't want to deal with anything "serious" right now. New house most likely will have bigger garage/shop and I can upgrade then (if I won't loose interest)

Question on backlash..
If I program to make same way pass for the tool - there will be no backlash issue, correct? Like if I will make cut path always right to left and up-down?

[The Blight]

About the backlash. You are kind of right about that. If you are using climb milling, you will most likely have problems, but if you are using conventional milling, this will work. Though it will not work when cutting circles. You can set backlash compansation in the software to help some, but again if you use climb milling, you can end up with lots of problems. The best thing to do is to try and eliminiate as much backlash as possible.

[katit]

Is duality lathe setup possible with mini mill and mini lathe? Or X2 is too small for that and X3 needed?