New to CNC; Buying machine.

[Thorpydo]

Hi Guys,

I'm looking to buy a CNC mill. I'm new to CNC but have been running manual machines for several years.

I'm looking for something that is small enough to put in my living room. I still am in that school stage of my life and have to move once every year or two so I'd like to take that into account. I will be doing prototyping, possibly small run production, and some hobby stuff mostly in 6061 aluminum (but it'd be nice to be able to cut steel) with the mill. I'd also like to be able to do 3d contouring.

I'd also like to venture into making cylindrical parts like this:
"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wViMFtxauOQ"]YouTube - MILL2LATHE converts your CNC mill to a CNC lathe!

So far I've looked at the syil x4, tormach PCNC, and the industrial hobbies turnkey. The turnkey and even the PCNC are steep for my budget but I'd rather spend a bit more and have a nice machine than cheap out and end up with a paper weight.

Is there a site that will tell me everything I need to know about these machines / CNC in general?

What machine do you guys recommend? Others than mentioned are welcome.

Thanks,
Adam

[rfrenzl]

I don't know about you, but the IH and Tormach are both over 1000 lbs. and not that small. Not something that is easy to move or get through front doors. If I were a landlord, I'd be a little concerned with something like these sitting in the livingroom of a place I'm renting out. You know you needs and what it possible but this is my two cents worth.

As for a site for more information, you're on it. You just have to research everything. Everyone has their own thoughts on what they want to do, need to do, and can do. As you express an interest in turning as well as milling, perhaps a combination mill/lathe is in order. However, I don't know of any turn key packages for such things.

Good luck in your search.

[sansbury]

Get a Taig. You can carry it by yourself to move it when company comes over, and when you have space for something bigger you can get most of your money back if you take care of it. In the meantime it is a very serious machine within its limits. No way I'd want anything larger than that in my living room and I am a messy single guy. Also be sure to get a tarp or big rubber mat because you'll be spraying oil and chips all over the place.

[norvil1]

stay away from shoptask tri-power.

[tikka308]

Thorpydo - i run a TAIG CNC out of my very-compact NYC apartment Bedroom. check out my blog with dozens of videos & pictures - www.nyccnc.com.

I agree with rfrenzl - the IH & Tormach are GREAT machines, but you need equipment to move them and a stable-floor to use them.

[Thorpydo]

My concern with the Taig is that it's just too small for some of the projects I want to do. It looks like it takes ER 16 collets and the max diameter is 3/8". I'd like to use R8 collets if possible.

Years ago I had a manual mini lathe. It was a great machine to learn on but I always wished I had something a bit bigger. I don't want to make the same mistake here. Perhaps there is something between the taig and tormach?

The x2 looks a tad bigger than the taig and uses r8 collets. I also believe harbor freight makes a version which means I could probably save on shipping as they have a distributer in my city. How are these machines?

[tikka308]

You're absolutely correct - the X2 is between a TAIG and a Tormach. There are dozens of threads - many with "strong" opinions - on TAIG vs. X2 or X3. The GENERAL consensus is that the TAIG is less rigid, higher RPM, and more "accurate". The X3 has slower RPM's, can be more sloppy re: accuracy (NOTE: many folks have made great improvements (e.g. Hoss) and have phenomenal X3's) and is actually a lot heavier. I don't have the specs in front of me, but I know that I can easily lift my TAIG. I think the X3's weigh quite a bit more...

[cjdavis618]

Hoss has a modified X2 mill, The X3 is a bit larger. In this photo, the X2 Mill is on the left. That is a Super X3 on the right.

(Man I'm glad it isn't quite that chaotic in my shop now. )

[Thorpydo]

Please correct my ignorance as I share my thinking.

I'm really scared to go with something as small as the x2. I already see projects out of scope, limited by the machine size. Although it does have transportability and cost on its side, I think I need something bigger.

The x3 and x4 look to be the same machine at least size wise. This is getting to more of what I want but I'm having a hard time justifying sticking with a machine like this instead of going one more step up. At 500 lbs, I'm probably going to need a shop crane anyway. 500 lbs vs 1000 lbs suddenly isn't such a big deal. It's going to be a hassle either way and the same type of hassle at that. With the x4 at about $5000 and the tormach at $6800, I feel like I'm getting alot more machine for a little more cash. I'm already dropping a bunch of money and I want to be happy with what I get.

Ontop of that, I have a jaded opinion as it stands with the x4. I read one in depth, terrible review on the machine and now feel that I will inherit all those problems with the purchase.

So. . am I totally off base? Can someone please chime in that has experience with either the x3/x4 or tormach?

Thanks!

[cjdavis618]

As you can see, I bought the X3 which is the same size as the Syil X3 and X4 mills. There are marked improvements over the X3 in the X4 series.

But if I had the money and did it all over again. I would go Tormach all the way. Without hesitation.

I added the CNC fusion kit to my system and had many tasks to get the machine to run right. While I only do this as a hobby, I would have been down and out for a long while if it was needed to make money.

Here is a post that completely covers the move of a tormach into a basement. Maybe this could help your decisions.

Moving Tormach mill to a basement - saga

[philbur]

I have a Tormach (for 2 years now) and can say only good things about it. but in my living room doing small production runs, I don't think so. You should maybe look at the smaller machines from smithycnc. Probably not as good a value as the Tormach but possibly more suited to your living room!!!!!!!!!!!!

Phil

Please correct my ignorance as I share my thinking.

I'm really scared to go with something as small as the x2. I already see projects out of scope, limited by the machine size. Although it does have transportability and cost on its side, I think I need something bigger.

The x3 and x4 look to be the same machine at least size wise. This is getting to more of what I want but I'm having a hard time justifying sticking with a machine like this instead of going one more step up. At 500 lbs, I'm probably going to need a shop crane anyway. 500 lbs vs 1000 lbs suddenly isn't such a big deal. It's going to be a hassle either way and the same type of hassle at that. With the x4 at about $5000 and the tormach at $6800, I feel like I'm getting alot more machine for a little more cash. I'm already dropping a bunch of money and I want to be happy with what I get.

Ontop of that, I have a jaded opinion as it stands with the x4. I read one in depth, terrible review on the machine and now feel that I will inherit all those problems with the purchase.

So. . am I totally off base? Can someone please chime in that has experience with either the x3/x4 or tormach?

Thanks!

[sansbury]

Does your living room have a garage door and cement slab floor? If not then the X3 is the biggest thing you have any business considering. Plus if you're going to have to move every year or so it is going to become a significant issue. I think NYCCNC is a bit eccentric but an X3 in a living room is just crazy. I was doing some tests with my X2 last night. 0.200DOC half-width with a 1/4" endmill at 4k RPM in 6061. It sprayed chips everywhere within three feet! And that's before we get into coolant.

Also when you either get sick of this hobby or need to move somewhere you can't easily manage a piece of large industrial machinery, a Taig can be eBayed and shipped wonderfully easily and you will probably get back 2/3 or more of your investment quickly. A machine that can't be shipped by UPS will be a lot harder to unload.