CNC setup

[mwood3]

hey guys this is my first post on here.

im looking on some advice on what setup to buy or what is a good setup to start with for my first benchtop CNC mill?

I would like to keep it under $2000 for the full setup minus the PC to run it if that is possible. i dont mind buying seperate componets and assembling/converting things over but im not sure of everything i need. im pretty handy at figuring things out, i work as a manager for a Toyota owned company running a CNC machine shop so i know advanced operation and basic programing. i just need help figuring out all the componets. any help would be much appreciated... I have looked at the Taig stuff and im leaning towards that but i would rather go a bit cheaper if possible...any tips or am i better off to just buy a complete system ($3000+) from Taig?

[mwood3]

no advice? is there already a topic about this i can read?

[acondit]

Originally Posted by mwood3 hey guys this is my first post on here. im looking on some advice on what setup to buy or what is a good setup to start with for my first benchtop CNC mill? I would like to keep it under $2000 for the full setup minus the PC to run it if that is possible. i dont mind buying seperate componets and assembling/converting things over but im not sure of everything i need. im pretty handy at figuring things out, i work as a manager for a Toyota owned company running a CNC machine shop so i know advanced operation and basic programing. i just need help figuring out all the componets. any help would be much appreciated... I have looked at the Taig stuff and im leaning towards that but i would rather go a bit cheaper if possible...any tips or am i better off to just buy a complete system ($3000+) from Taig?

Read Hoss2006 thread "X2 cnc finished for now maybe". It will give you a real good view of what can be accomplished with something like an X2, what is needed to do it and if I recall correctly roughly what it cost.

Alan

[cjdavis618]

This is a very hard question to answer without knowing some basics.

Since you have access to a machine shop, you are lucky in that respect that you may be able to utilize those machines for your custom parts for mounting.

First off,

What are you wanting to mill. Plastics, AL, Steel, etc?

What work envelope are you looking for? What size parts are you looking to fabricate?

[Stepper Monkey]

Originally Posted by mwood3 I have looked at the Taig stuff and im leaning towards that but i would rather go a bit cheaper if possible...any tips or am i better off to just buy a complete system ($3000+) from Taig?

If you really want to put a Taig system together it only costs $1500-$2000 for a really good complete setup - even including a fourth axis. Taig actually doesn't make a factory complete CNC kit, each dealer simply builds their own package by combining off-the-shelf driver softwares, steppers and drive systems to the base mill. The dealer you are looking at is likely the one dealer that has a sponsored link right there on the Taig website, but there are several other factory authorized dealers as well (like cartertools.com), each with their own preferred set of hardware/software and price point. One dealer even offers a quite rudimentary but perfectly functional plug-and-play Xylotex-based system ready to run for $1500, $1900 with rotary. You can also always assemble your own package quite literally just as easily if you are savvy enough to know what you want.

A base mill is $1100 for the highest-end CNC-ready version (p/n 2019ER-CR) from Nick (cartertools.com) or Taig, a Mach license is $159, and a top-notch four-axis drive package with steppers is available several places for under $500 bucks. Look at Keling inc's ready-to-go package (http://www.kelinginc.net/ControlSystem.html, $469 for 3-axis, ask about the 4 axis and 36v setups) or even better Geckos new nearly plug-and-play setup coming out this week - if you don't mind doing the hookup wiring (it will be a game-changer for the whole industry). Thats all there is to it. A CNC ready fourth axis from Sherline (p/n 3700cnc) is $320 if and when you want to add one, it is the de facto standard for all the Taig packages.

When you spend the extra hundreds on a pre-assembled Taig package, the dealers still just usually drop ship all the components to you from each of the various manufacturers and you have to assemble it at your end anyway. The only thing usually gained is that they made the hardware choices and did the ordering for you, or in the case of some drive systems wired and tested them for you. You don't necessarily need to deal with that unless you desire the extra layer of support to fall back on. It is excellent for complete newbies, but if you are at all familiar with machines and machining even in concept you can much better use hundreds of dollars worth of extra tooling more than you can use the extra layer of handholding and tech support. Extra support is really the only value-add that packages usually gain you, so its simply a value judgement on your part as to if you think its worth it.

[mwood3]

Thanks for the helpful advice, i need to see what next month has in store for me. a bonus for sure and maybe a promotion... one more question, is Taig the way to go or is there a better machine for the money. do any of them come with ball screws or will i need to convert what i get? any other machines i should look at before i make a choice? i looked at the X2, taig, and the CNC masters overpriced junk...lol

[Stepper Monkey]

Originally Posted by mwood3 one more question, is Taig the way to go or is there a better machine for the money. do any of them come with ball screws or will i need to convert what i get? any other machines i should look at before i make a choice? i looked at the X2, taig, and the CNC masters overpriced junk...lol

There is no better machine than the Taig for the money - IF what you really need is a Taig. It has a lot of very specific advantages in quality and features but has limitations in its power. The only other thing in the range worth looking at is an X2, but only if that is what you really need. It too has advantages and limits. In stock form it is much cruder and more problematic without a lot of modification, and much more limited in useful features like travel and spindle speed, but a more powerful machine if the need for larger tooling and serious cutting in steel is required. They are simply two very different machines for different needs.

Neither one comes with ballscrews stock. There is no ballscrew kit for the Taig, as it doesn't have the room for fitment. The X2 has a DIY ballscrew kit available from several sources. Syil also makes an off-the-shelf converted X2, but this drives the price several hundred dollars outside your range.

If ballscrews are an absolute requirement you may also want to look into the incremental difference in cost of doing a ballscrew conversion to the vastly superior X3 instead of the X2. As the ballscrews, motors and electronics are where the vast majority of the money will be invested in either case, you will find the difference in price between the base mills they are installed on to be rather insignificant in regards to the dramatic value/performance increase you get by virtually every quantifiable measure. This of course would be even more above your price range, likely by a good thousand dollars in this case, but if you really need a ballscrew system you can't beat the bang for the buck of a X3.

[acondit]

Originally Posted by mwood3 Thanks for the helpful advice, i need to see what next month has in store for me. a bonus for sure and maybe a promotion... one more question, is Taig the way to go or is there a better machine for the money. do any of them come with ball screws or will i need to convert what i get? any other machines i should look at before i make a choice? i looked at the X2, taig, and the CNC masters overpriced junk...lol

I was just thinking that with access to a machine shop, you just might be able to pull off a cnc conversion of an X3 for around $2000. That would blow both the Taig and the X2 away. You can get an X3 for around $1000. That leaves another $1000 for the conversion. Several guys are working wonders with Xylotex and HobbyCNC controllers and Gecko should soon have their new G251 drives or G540 4 axis controller available. You can use EMC2 for free as the control software. Then it is a question of what will the ballscrews, nuts, bearings, breakout board, power supply, switches, and other miscellaneous cost you? It would be tight but it would be in a whole different class.

The real question that needs to be answered first, is not what can you afford but what do you really need? There is nothing to be gained by buying a machine that will not meet your needs. Taig, X2 or X3? You first have to define what you plan to do. Having a machine that exceeds your needs is great, having one that won't do what you need is frustrating. Having said that I have seen jobs that were done on a Taig that I would have thought impossible on that class machine.

Alan

[cadmonkey]

I must chime in with support of the X3 - though you haven't stated what you're looking to work on or with. The biggest limit of the X line is the spindle speed but even that has been improved by some people. That will be at the top of my to do list to get a higher spindle speed.

As for cost - right around 2k maybe 2500 when you consider I started with nothing. If you have access to a full shop to make the parts for a conversion you should be able to knock out the parts in short order and stock costs are low. Drivers and motors drive the cost - I'm running EMC2 on a curbside P3 650MHz 384mb machine with great results so the PC doesn't need to be stellar (try running installing XP and then running Mach on that setup...) for EMC2 - so extra savings there.

Check my conversion of the X3 in my gallery at www.distinctperspectives.com

[mwood3]

ill be cutting mostly aluminum and some delrin. the first two things ill be making will be for RC cars and Paintball guns...more of the reason to get this setup is for learning more about CNC.

[cadmonkey]

Theres a lot of different aspects to learn - the actual machining and programming and part design, the mechanics behind the motion control, the software behind motion control, the electronics behind motion control, the list can go on and on. If you're really looking to learn a DIY conversion will teach you (rather force you to learn) about a lot of different aspects of the machine and the process of machining. I admit it's nice not having to turn the dials and read a dial or a digital scale but what I learned turning the wheels by hand taught me a lot about sequence of operations and part production, and cranking that Z axis up and down makes me respect it even more Besides - if you don't NEED to be cranking out parts within a week of your order, DIY allows you to take the time to decide what all you want in the machine and spread out the cost potentially allowing a larger more capable machine for about the same or a little more. And smaller individual outlays are easier on the pocket (for me at least). I converted the X and Y and then designed my Z. Using the quill to adjust Z I CNC machined the Z parts starting saturday morning and by sunday afternoon I was adjusting backlash (that includes machining the screw and boring out the bearing blocks at my brothers office).

[mwood3]

well, i admit im still a newbie in the CNC world. over the last few years i have learned alot about CNC operation and gotten into some programing, and i do alot of troubleshooting and machine crash recovery, (rebuiling things, traming tables etc.) I also have many very smart people available to me and almost unlimited resources. I figure im a step ahead at the start^^, this being said still expect me to ask the noob qestions from time to time...

Thanks for all your help

and thanks ahead of time for your pateince :P