Newbie- So many to choose from... Need advice

[Crazy_Pete]

I'm interesting in taking on a new hobby of adding decorative finishes to watch movements. Some of the Techniques can be accomplished by hand but others require the use of some type of Mill. I've been trying to take the recommendations given out from people on this board to others and have already learned a lot. But I feel as thought I still don't know where to begin. I'll try to narrow down the field with some requirements / Limitations:

Because this is starting as a hobby I would like to keep the budget on this reasonable. it seems mini mills range from $300 to $1,000's. If a $700 mill will work better than a $550 mill then I will opt for the $700 mill. With that noted, I plan on starting with a manual mill. Having the option to go CNC down the road would be a nice plus though.

The work I plan on doing involves pieces that are small. They do not exceed 45mm in any dimension. They are also usually made out of plated brass.

It appears everyones motto on here is go for the largest mill you can afford so your ideas have room to grow. I understand this well but do have some space constraints. I also would like a unit that is quiet so maybe belt driven would be a better option.

Like I said, my end goal is detailed finish work applied to the backside of watch movements. Accuracy is more important to me than speed of material removal. I included some pictures of what some of the watch finishes look like so you can get a better idea of what I'm trying to do.

thank you for any info,
Pete

[jalessi]

Hi,


Take a close look at the Taig Mill for your "budget" it is probably the only choice.

The Taig has a much higher spindle speed 10,000 r.p.m. than 99% of the imports, this might be important due to the types of finish you are trying to achieve.

Then there is the runnout issue, the Taig holds .0005 out of the box, with the very small tooling you will be using this is really important.

The next step up from the Taig for ultra high precision work is the Minitech and it would be the cats meow for you!

Checkout http://3dcadjewelry.com/phpbb/ The resources here may help you alot.

Jeff Alessi
jalessi@aol.com

[Stepper Monkey]

You do not want a mini mill for this. You really don't want most of the things we use on here. Totally different ballgame. If you try doing guillochet on most anything we use here you will get very disappointed fast and ruin a lot of stock.

I have several different mills, mainly because I do just this kind of work as well. Some of the smallest and most accurate mills meant for jewelers are excellent to work with for this kind thing, but they are pricey. My first one was smaller than a Sherline and cost well over twenty grand. Not that I am recommending that route, but it is one place to start if you have the capital. Now that I have learned a few things about using CNC for jewelry and watchmaking, I'd go a different route now. There are cheaper and actually better options.

I can't believe I'm going to say this, as I usually strongly avoid recommending a build to a first-timer, but you might want to look into assembling your own machine. I say this for two reasons; what you need is simple to assemble from more or less off-the-shelf assemblies, and it is really, really cheap. As in a couple of pennies on the dollar.
The only real secret is that Hyper-accurate XY assemblies are readily available as surplus for a couple hundred dollars or less that originally cost many thousands or tens of thousands to buy new. Usually even pretty mediocre motion control stuff gets bid up pretty high and snatched up pretty fast if it is large or heavy enough to be useful for metal mills or routers. A high-dollar aerospace, lab, or optics platform can sit around with no bids at all because most folks on here can't use a table that only has 100mm of travel. I've seen complete ground ballscrew units with way covers and servos and encoders and limit switches still installed, and rated to the millionths in repeatability, not get any bids at all. They are just too small for most people to care about. If you keep your eyes open and find some of those you can get a quite godlike machine for next to nothing in just the size range you want.
I have an XYZ unit that outweighs a mini mill and could jack up a truck, but it only has 4 inches travel per axis. They are an accurate, rigid, and fast 4 inches though! All I had to do there was pretty much add a spindle mount to the Z, the spindle, and a tooling plate for fixturing and go. It cost less than many entry level mini mills too. I am certainly not talking about building one from scratch or anything. Just be patient, keep your eyes open and don't be afraid to ask for advice.

BTW - Jeff is right, of all the ready-to-go small mills, the Taig is hands down the winner here. The spindle speed alone is a good reason, but there is more than that. I also have two of them, so I know they do well for this kind of work. In fact, now that I think about it, I made the spindle mount for my little mill I described above on my first Taig. Might behoove you to get a Taig, get cutting, and as better parts come up surplus over time you will have something to help build the next better mill.... One is never enough!

[jalessi]

Pete,

Eric (Stepper Monkey) has some very good suggestions.

If you invest the time to learn how to set up your own machine using ultra high precision semiconductor (micron grade) linear assemblies you will have a machine that would have cost upwards of 30k- 100k for pennies on the dollar.

The small form factor is just what the doctor ordered for your application and like Eric said not many people bid on the parts because they are to small for a "hobby type mill."

If you decided to do something along these lines you might consider contracting Eric to build a machine specific to your needs.

A machine built correctly using these types of assemblies would be the ultimate choice for precision!

In the end it will come down to time building machines, time building watches or time spending lots of money.

Jeff...

[Crazy_Pete]

Thank you for all of the help. I will be honest though, I am a bit Leary of taking on the task of building a mill myself. that might be a project I would consider after getting my feet wet with a prebuilt mill. From all the lurking I did on here it seemed that the Taig was the hands down winner. This appears to be the approach I think I want to take.

Now that I think we have the platform I am going to start, is their anything that can be improved upon with the Taig mill?

[philbur]

Those chips are going to play havoc with the movement and I guess flood coolant is probably out.

I assume you realise you will have to disassemble the time-piece in order to achieve the desired result.

Phil

Originally Posted by Crazy_Pete I'm interesting in taking on a new hobby of adding decorative finishes to watch movements. Some of the Techniques can be accomplished by hand but others require the use of some type of Mill. I've been trying to take the recommendations given out from people on this board to others and have already learned a lot. But I feel as thought I still don't know where to begin.

[Crazy_Pete]

I've been repairing watches for about 6 years now. it is actually my profession as I run my family owned Jewelry and Watch Repair store. I've come to fall in love with the detail finish work and am looking to dress up plain Swiss movements. If it ends up working well, I might even offer it as a service to those who would be interested.

Out of curiosity, other than steppr monkey, does anyone else toy with watches and mills?

[jalessi]

Pete,

If you go to the link I have attached you will find a wealth of information pertaining to our field (jewelry) cad cam, some of the members even have varying degree's of watchmaking skills.

http://3dcadjewelry.com/phpbb/

The forum I am suggesting is truely one in a million and some of the members are world class artisians.

Sincerely,

Jeff Alessi

[Harryman]

What they said.

Get a Taig and get milling, it's a reasonably small investment to find out if what you want to do, is really what you want to do. If you decide to lose the Taig at anytime down the road, they have a good resale value, so you can consider it a "rental" if you like.

It will work well enough to get you going and as you become more knowlegable, you can look for the parts to assemble your dream machine.

Yah, www.3dcadjewelry.com