$3k budget for desktop mill, please help!

[touser]

Hello everyone, i have about a $3k budget for a desktop mill, i have been looking at the sherlines but i am not sure how they stack up to the competition as far as value is concerned. I will be using the mill to make computer waterblocks, like the ones pictured here: http://dangerden.com/mall/products_home.htm out of copper and polycarbonate. Any help is greatly appreciated!
*edit* i have also been searching ebay and this brand of mahcine seems to come up fairly often http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...912582101&rd=1
it looks perfect for my needs but i am not sure about the company, does anyone have any experience with the mill in that link?

[touser]

Thanks for the reply sendkeys, building/converting one really isnt an option for me as i have very little experience with metal working/machining. I just want to get a small desktop one that will be capable of making items similar to that in my link in my first post. Also, what do you think of the mill featured in the ebay link above? To me it looks perfect, and sense it has a 4th axis i can use that later when i am making something more complicated.

[sendkeys]

[metlmunchr]

I don't follow the mini-mills too closely since they're not something I'm interested in owning, but I have seen far more negative comments about them (MaxNC) than positives in the yahoo groups. Might post a request for an opinion on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cad_cam_edm_dro or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/diy-cnc
Lots of people with mini-mill experience frequent both those groups. Particularly, you might want to pose the question about whether the Max-NC closed loop control is really closed loop by the classic definition. It might be, but the description makes me think not. If a company is using smoke and mirrors in their sales literature, thats always a red flag to proceed with caution. I also noticed their spindle is indicated as having some type of tapered bore to directly accept collets. Its worthwhile to know exactly what this spindle arrangement is, because I wouldn't want to find myself in a position to have to purchase proprietary tooling from any machine manufacturer. If there's much material to cut in your parts, a 1/10 hp spindle motor isnt going to have much oomph once the drive losses are considered. Copper is generally NOT a fun material to mill upon

[touser]

Thank you both for the info i really appreciate it! I will post on the yahoo boards asking what current users think of the maxnc. Would the taig be a better machine overall for milling copper? You said it may take a day to machine one block, which isnt really a big deal, but if the taig will do it in half a day thats even better. Also considering that one on ebay is at $1500 now, but assuming it goes for $2000ish that is still a much better deal just because of the software, so would shelling out the extra cash to buy the taig and all software, tooling, etc be worth the extra money?

[rustyolddo]

Touser, I will suggest that you seriously consider budgeting $1500 towards software. Spend your time reading the software forums here and at the yahoo groups. You software choice will have a direct bearing on your ability to accomplish your tasks in a timely manner. If you try and skate by with lackluster software, you'll wind up spending more time fighting the computer and less time making chips.

[lancedulak]

Just my humble opinion.

For a desktop mill the best on the market Period are the Sieg mills sold by Harbor Freight. The Micromill is "desktop" size and will give you a work envelope something like 7x7x5. The Mini is bigger

What do you want to use it for and what are your primary concerns.
I have a micromill that will fit on my desk. Its enclosed in its own case and barring vibration from cutting you cant hear it outside this room. When i insulate it you wont be able to hear it 5 feet away. Its case is 24"x24"x38".. when i install a gas strut that will reduce to 24"x24"x28"

If you want a TOP end minimill and are willing to do some things yoruself or pay to have them done:
HF Mini(not micro) mill - $500
Gecko Drives -$300
Servo motors -$150-$400 (ebayed)
Cables/power/mounts/misc- $75
(double)Ball Screws - $150-300 (no backlash)

Very nice Mini or Micro
HF mini/micro - $250 or $500
Xylotex controller - $150
3x pacsci steppers - $90
Premade Cables - $60
Premade Mounts -$60 (lots of people will do this)
Power supply - $20-50


If you Only want it to do this any mini/micro will do an excellent job. It wont cost you anywhere near $3k unless you just want to throw money at it. (you could buy a used industrial mill, refit it and probably cnc it for that). The MINI mills have the Advantage of using R8 tooling. Most of the micros (desktops) use 2mt spindles which make things like collets a little bit more expensive.


Whatever you spend on the mill - You WILL spend that much again on tooling remember that. ANY of the mills will do the work your talkign about. Ebay IS the place to get your tooling for a desktop mill period. Especially micro-endmills. I got a box of about 20 down to 3/64 and smaller for $15. I spend $1 to $2 for my HSS endmills. Note that these are all 1/2" and smaller.

You can buy an "off the shelf" cnc mill in that range for $1500-$2000. IMHO your getting screwed when you do but you may prefer not to do any work yourself. TAIG and Sherline mills both have Dedicated followings and huge amounts of premade accessories for them. I believe they also both sell pre-cnc'd versions of their mills. Make SURE the steppers are AT LEAST 150 oz/in and use Chopper drivers. Watch this closely as most of the guys selling "cnc minis" sell them with cheap 90 oz/in motors and unipolar nonchopper drivers etc

You will need a computer dedicated to them. You WILL want to use Turbocnc (dos). The windows controllers are just garbage. Not because of the programmers (they all did fantastic work considering the systems they had to make it work on) but because windows is bloatware.

[8SECNOTCH]

Originally Posted by lancedulak Just my humble opinion. For a desktop mill the best on the market Period are the Sieg mills sold by Harbor Freight. The Micromill is "desktop" size and will give you a work envelope something like 7x7x5. The Mini is bigger If you want a TOP end minimill and are willing to do some things yoruself or pay to have them done: HF Mini(not micro) mill - $500 Gecko Drives -$300 Servo motors -$150-$400 (ebayed) Cables/power/mounts/misc- $75 (double)Ball Screws - $150-300 (no backlash)

Been reading for a-little while - my first post on this site....

I am looking for a CNC Capable / Ready to go Mill myself. My problem is I don't want to buy something that I will out-grow too quickly. I will be machining mostly aluminum parts usually no bigger than 10 x 5 x 1/2-1 thick. Do you feel the Harbor Freight "Mini" will be enough with everything you have listed above? How long do you think it would take this machine to produce a semi complex part around this size? What are your thoughts on the next size up HF 1-1/2 HP HEAVY DUTY MILLING/DRILLING MACHINE? http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=33686

I went to "Smithy" yesterday (1/2 hr away) to look at what they had to offer as they where supposed to be running a "HUGE" scratch & dent sale however it seemed as nothing but a gimmick to get you in the door. Is anyone familiar with their new CNC 1240 BED MILL? It's $12,999.! - They had the proto model on the floor for-sale for $10,000. It came with just about everything to get started & a "generic" I presume tool pack. This is exactly (capability wise) what I am really looking for - only not the price (I hope) Servo motors, Ball screws, ETC....

PLEASE HELP - LOOKING TO GET UP & RUNNING SOON AND QUITE POSSIBLY PAY SOMEONE TO HAVE A MACHINE CONVERTED / BUILT TO CNC IF I GO THAT ROUTE.

Thanks everyone & look forward to some good discussion - Rob

[CNCPlastic]

I spent a few months reading the various forums and talking to people before buying a mill and heard many repeating complaints about the mini-mills and round column mills. Mostly mini-mill owners noted how quickly they outgrew their machine, poor finish, chatter, etc. due to lack of mass of the machine. Round column mill complaints were flexing of the column, minimum Z travel e.g. Z limited to the 3-5 inches of quill travel, slop and poor finish with the quil extended, and in general what a pain they were with respect to Z.

I decided to get the next step up and avoid my former mistakes. Ever buy a $500 table saw only to dump it for a $1,000 table saw only to dump it for a real $1,800 cabinet saw? Or drill or router or well you get the point, you get what you pay for when it comes to tools. But with a cnc setup, you are really talking about a substancial investment. Its going to be $3,000-$4500 to get into a cnc mill thats worth beans. Why spend $2,500 only to dump it soon after for $1,500 and then spend the $3,000-$4,500 on top of that? It would be better to save up for another 6 months than buy something you might outgrow almost immediatly.

I opted for this 700 pound beast and the industrialhobbies.com cnc retro kit. Lathemaster also offers a smaller version of this mill which they don't advertise. Last I heard industrialhobbies.com was making a kit for the smaller one also.

http://www.lathemaster.com/HEAVYDUTY...E%207045FG.htm

[kellogs72]

Touser. I was just talking about my sherline mill in another thread. In my experience with my Sherline 5000 I have learned a few things. For one, it is NOT designed for production work. Backlash becomes a issue after maybe 2 runs of 30 min cycle times each. I have runied many pieces because of this and i have called it every name in the book at times. It is wonderfull for doing small projects like prototyping but making several pieces at a time and trying to keep your tolerances in check on each run is a pain. Sherline themselves say in their manual that this is not a production machine. Hope this helps you in your quest for a mill. Its a great product, just dont get your hopes up for making multiple pieces at a time without having to tweak, remove backlash..etc.

[lancedulak]

A lot of posters, with good Intent, posted that you should "only get a top of the line full sized mill". that is what you always hear at cnc groups etc. Heres what i think is good advise

Consider your work envelope first. That is the #1 criteria Period.
For the envelope you want the HF mini is great. So would grizzley mills. It's a little big to be considered a "desktop' mill but it will work. Id Seriously suggest you expand your work envelope size. I bought my mill for small items. I wish right now i had 2" extra y travel like you wouldnt believe. Thats not so important for manual milling as you can adjust the workpiece to make up for it. In CNC its about 1000 times harder.

On power/speed. That all depends on what your milling. If your milling a simple part you may get it done in a few passes fairly deep and rough. A complex part you want to be very accurate with lots of curves etc you may have 50,000 lines of code to machine a very small part. You could be running a 9 hour program. If your big thing is Production ie you want Fast deep cutting then convert an industrial mill in your garage or get a Big workshop mill.

Id suggest to you that you spend $1100-1600 or so to get a mini and cnc it. Do a good job you'll be able to make a profit if you sell it. Work with it, learn cnc/gcode etc. If you want more you can go bigger next time. It will definitely handle the work envelope you want and isnt underpowered. If you dont like the power you can put a bigger motor on it, pulley systems.. the upgrades you can do are limitless literally

Thing is this : Just do it. and remember you'll spend on tooling what you do on the mill. And that you will never ever stop buying tooling.