Newbie- Quality difference between different X2's

[damianks]

I am going to be buying an x2 soon and was wondering if there are any differences in the quality of the machines offered by say Harbor freight and Grizzly? Other than their different paint jobs the look identical to me.

I plan to do the cnc conversion on my machine.

Also, is there a difference with what comes "In the box"? The Grizzly site at least lists the contents, Harbor freight does not.

[Mike Nash]

Both are made in the same factory http://www.siegind.com. The Grizzly has a morse taper 3 (MT3) spindle.The HF has an R8 spindle. Other than that, the name, the color, the after sales support and the price, they're the same. There's also the Speedway from http://www.homier.com and the one from http://www.cummins.com. Both of which also have truck sales. Oh yeah, http://www.use-enco.com http://www.cdcotools.com and http://www.wttool.com also carry them. http://www.micromark.com also has one that's supposed to be cleaned up and has 0.050" per turn leadscrews instead of 0.0625" which all the rest have.

You can also build one from parts from http://www.littlemachineshop.com but that is costly. Great for replacement parts and some mini mill/lathe specific type stuff.

For the most part, there's a lot of frustration with using them, until/unless you get the bugs worked out.

I'm sure I probably missed some vendors. Homier has sold them for $299 when in stock. Cummins may be the same. Everyone else is darn proud of theirs.

Eeeny Meeny, Miny, Moe ...

[damianks]

Am I better off with MT3 or the R8 spindle?
Is one MORE of an "Industry Standard" than the other?

I am completely new to machining, I am learning what I can as I go.

[philbur]

There is probably as much variation in quality between machines from the same supplier as there is between suppliers.

R8 would normally be considered the better taper for a mill, but the most important thing to check is what type of tooling is most easily/cheapest for you at your location. Also if you have (or intend to have) a lathe then morse taper tooling might be a better choice.

Phil

Originally Posted by damianks I am going to be buying an x2 soon and was wondering if there are any differences in the quality of the machines offered by say Harbor freight and Grizzly? Other than their different paint jobs the look identical to me. I plan to do the cnc conversion on my machine. Also, is there a difference with what comes "In the box"? The Grizzly site at least lists the contents, Harbor freight does not.

[damianks]

Thanks for the replies.

Accessibility shouldn't be an issue, I will most likely be ordering from catalogs.
I have not looked around for local shops that sell tooling.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction, I'll be doing some shopping around.

[Mike Nash]

Originally Posted by damianks Am I better off with MT3 or the R8 spindle? Is one MORE of an "Industry Standard" than the other?

As a pure novice as far as machining goes, I prefer the R8. There's simply more selection available for mill tooling. R8 collets are cheap. Endmill holders less so. MT3 has cheaper drill chuck arbors (you get one of these with the mill anyway), but the collets and endmill holders are a bit more rare from some of the vendors such as Enco. R8 releases more easily from the spindle although it still requires a rap on the drawbar.

No offense intended to anyone, but the only MT3 tooling I have for my mini lathe is a dead center which is not very useful on the mill. If you have a larger lathe (such as my 12x36) then the tailstock on it may use MT3. But all I have for that is centers and a drill chuck. I fail to see where the common taper is such an advantage except for maybe a boring head being used in the large lathes tailstock as a taper turning set-over device. Additonally, any MT3 tooling for the mill needs to be threaded for a drawbar (except perhaps the drill chuck arbor.)

BTW, it's a bad idea to try to mill with a drill chuck. Unless the chuck is bolted to the arbor (like my $200 Homier drill mill came with) the chuck can come loose from even a drawbar held arbor. Also endmill shanks are hardened and will slip in the hardened chuck jaws.

[damianks]

Thank you.

Now are there any caveats for the set-up I have planned?

Harbor Freight X2
HobbyCNC Pro with 305 oz. motors
fignoggle plans
haven't decided on the software yet, although my uncle has an old copy of Bobcad v18 that he doesn't use any more. Will most likely use that, because he has all the training discs and docs.

[philbur]

Ah but you have forgotten about the Morse taper in the head stock and the possibilities that this presents. Also adapters from MT4 to 2 or 3 to 2 are very cheap. I agree that the commonality of taper between your mill and lathe is not a big issue but if you are on a very tight budget, well.....

Phil

Originally Posted by Mike Nash I fail to see where the common taper is such an advantage except for maybe a boring head being used in the large lathes tailstock as a taper turning set-over device. Additonally, any MT3 tooling for the mill needs to be threaded for a drawbar (except perhaps the drill chuck arbor.)

[Mike Nash]

Originally Posted by philbur Ah but you have forgotten about the Morse taper in the head stock and the possibilities that this presents. Also adapters from MT4 to 2 or 3 to 2 are very cheap. I agree that the commonality of taper between your mill and lathe is not a big issue but if you are on a very tight budget, well..... Phil

Well, I'm curious. What are those possibilities? I can see putting endmills in the lathe spindle with a milling vise attachment on the cross slide, but if I already have a mill... So what else is there?

[philbur]

For example an ER collet holder in the lathe spindle, with the work-piece in the collet (instead of an endmill). That's a standard lathe setup when you want the work-piece to have good repeatable concentricity with the lathe spindle.

Phil

Originally Posted by Mike Nash Well, I'm curious. What are those possibilities? I can see putting endmills in the lathe spindle with a milling vise attachment on the cross slide, but if I already have a mill... So what else is there?

[philbur]

Another example is the use of morse taper collets in the mill spindle and in the lathe spindle, with a morse sleeve type adapter if the tapers are not the same size.

Phil

Originally Posted by Mike Nash Well, I'm curious. What are those possibilities?

[The Blight]

I have the X2 with the MT3 spindle. The only tools I have which use this spindle is a set of ER collets and a holder for them, and a couple finger collets. I'm only using one of them for all my tools, as I have made 30 tool holders for diffenet sizes.

I can only see one advantage with the MT3. It has more clamping force, but this can also become a bit of a problem. If you get moisture in there and it starts to rust, it can be impossible to get out again (the collet or tool)