X3 conversion

[ne-oublie]

Just reading this link http://www.rlberg.com/CNC.htm what a great write up.He gives a link to his solid works files, how do i open them? I would like to follow his plans and having prints would be such an asset when making the mounts etc. He has not updated in a long time, was there a separate post for the completion? Thanks.

[DonF]

http://www.solidworks.com/pages/prod...ns/viewer.html

[ne-oublie]

DonF, thanks, now how do i get the dimentions? All it's given me is the solid?

[dewme5]

do you have a normal cad/cam software you use? I could convert to something you are more familiar with.

[ne-oublie]

Originally Posted by dewme5 do you have a normal cad/cam software you use? I could convert to something you are more familiar with.

I have nothing as yet, i am doing all the planning and research ahead of time, so that when i get the X3, i will have a game plan as what to do.Basically i will get the machine all cleaned,set up, adjusted and dialed in, so that i know where i am starting from.Then the plan is to CNC. I am a new member and have learned a great deal from this site, and have allot more to learn, still not grasping some of the electronic stuffBut with help i will get there Thanks.

[dewme5]

That's pretty much how I did it, and I assume many others as well.

Learning to machine is #1. Understanding feeds/speeds, fixtures etc needs to happen before you turn on auto pilot, and find out things now break easier.

cad/cam software is going to become very important. There are options from free up to about $30,000 per license. The are all different, and it's pretty important to understand it completely, I use edgecam at work, and love it. Lots of people use bobcad, so help is available too. Find one, and get some training in it. Even before you go cnc, you still need good plans to machine from. Going with out the plans, and taking just a little more off the top to make it fit, is fabricating, not machining. Holding tolerances, and repeatability are important.

If you don't have the X3 yet, I would suggest finding a complete package. The money seems more off the start, but it's not by much in the end. You pay to get a complete working package. I've converted my X3, and in the process have blown up some Gecko 320's. Bought a bigger power supply case then I needed (make more room for that), and other things. Little hickups that cost money that it's part of the finished product. By all means, if you want to convert, do it, it's a great experience. Buying a complete unit will have you up and running quicker, and with many less headaches.

Also, if you don't need the x3 100% of the time, consider something smaller, cheaper that covers 99% of the time, and send out the 1% (you'll already know how to make the drawing correct). That 1% could cost you an extra $1000 if you insist on a larger machine then you need (I have an X3 at home, and we have a taig at work. guess which one I use more)

Lastly before you make a firm decision, look thru the sponsors of cnczone. All those ads have some great deals behind them to get you going in the right direction.

[tmarks11]

Considering just buying an X3 or SX3 right now, rather then jumping straight to a KX3 or Syil machine. I would rather get the KX3, but unfortunately it looks like Smithy might be the only choice for a while (I was hoping Grizzly might pick it up in their 2008 print catalog, but they didn't). I also don't know if I want to wait around long enough for the KX3 to get past it's first generation growing pains.

Don, would you mind discussing why you went with the X3 instead of the SX3 for your conversion (besides the obvious $450 reason)? I know that the built in z axis DRO isn't really important after you CNC it. I like the idea of the direct belt drive on the SX3, since it should be quieter without the two speed gear train the X3.

Any opinions on whether the SX3 tapping feature would actually be of any value?

Originally Posted by dewme5 Also, if you don't need the x3 100% of the time, consider something smaller, cheaper that covers 99% of the time, and send out the 1%...I have an X3 at home, and we have a taig at work. guess which one I use more

OK, I am dense, you are saying you use the Taig more? That is an interesting perspective, since generally everyone says "don't underbuy, you will regret it latter when you end up buying a larger machine". Would you mind elaborating on your feelings about using the Taig vs. X3?

I had also briefly considered the Smithy KX1 since it is $1100 cheaper then the KX3, but was afraid that I would quickly come to regret it. I am very space limited (just sold my house and am in an apartment with a one car garage for the next year with no 220V available) so the smaller (and quieter) machine would seem to be a better idea for learning, especially since moving heavy machinery will be a PIA when I move again sometime next year (even with my CUT with 800# lift capacity).

In the meantime I have been playing with RhinoCAD and MADCAM. Being a university instructor, those educational discounts are pretty sweet. I even got my 5 year old drawing stuff on RhinoCAD. He loves it because it is so easy to throw up some 3D solids...

[dewme5]

I had a huge write up that just didn't go thru, so to summurize.

The Tiag, was purchased from microproto for $3000. But, was ready to go, software included. The X3 has the drill press feature which introduces to much slop. Buy the time all is added up, the X3 running as a CNC, with ballscrews, is the same price as the taig we have. EXCEPT for labor. While the taig is producing stuff right off the bat, the X3 is taking the next 50-100 hours to be built (especially if you are making your own brackets). Since you are "working" putting this together, what do you get paid for 50-100 hours of work. I know I could use 2 extra pay checks. You can now double that figure, because instead of producing, your machine was taking that money from you.

Take any machine shop. Do they buy the best equipment for the money, or do they buy the biggest piece of equipment they can afford? Don't buy a machine because you can buy it, buy it becuase you can use it. If you need the size of the X3, get the X3 or equivilent, but if 99% of the time you need a smaller machine, then buy the smaller machine, and send out that last 1% Everything will be better in the end.

I've learned a few things, and in my opinion I think the first CNC a person gets should be ready to go. If you need an X3 sized machine, get one that is ready to go. After you have one, you better understand what is right and wrong, and what you would like different. Build that into your own machine.

Don't buy to small. But don't buy big becuase it's big, buy big becuase it's good, and it's what you need.

[ne-oublie]

I am only wanting this for a hobby type thing.I like to make model steam engines, and it would be so nice to make the more complicated pieces myself.If the opportunity came alone to earn a Little extra cash on the machine, great, but thats not my priority.I agree buy what you need, i am going back and forth on the idea of building my own, which will be fun and a learning experience, or buy turn key, which obviously has many advantages.Not looking to save money by building my own either, as thats more than likely not the case.I am not rushing into anything to soon, still lots to look at.

[tmarks11]

Thanks for the response. One big problem is that it seems like you could easily shoot yourself in the foot while doing a CNC mod, if you don't own another mill. Back yourself into a corner where you can't continue without a machine to do some milling for you, and end up having to pay through the nose to get it fixed.

Originally Posted by dewme5 The X3 has the drill press feature which introduces to much slop.

Does locking the quill all the way up help minimize that slop? I guess that is why the KX3 doesn't have a moveable quill. This kind of makes me lean in the direction of waiting until I can get a KX3.

[neilw20]

In July I bought Super X3 CNC full factory finished.
Just plugged it into nearest Mach3 ready junk computer.
It worked straight out of the box.
Spindle drive firmware needs improvement.
Belt drive is good -- 3600 RPM, 4th axis, Compound pump and tank.
Tapping feature is novel, but intermittent connections from buttons let it down.
Factory should use the correct crimping tool on stepper connectors.
They should tighten more than 75% of electrical connections properly.
Ball screws well installed.
Stepper drivers are excellent.
Switchmode power supply good. SPECIFY 600W for 4 axis. (not 480w standard)
Homing switch wiring needs mechanical protection.

All that said I am still 109.5% happy.
Once you have have tweaked the gibbs, and all of the above it is EXCELLENT and very accurate.

Now making a SMD pick and place attachment.
Have the SMD parts table moving at 1000 IPM in rapid using 4th axis.
Expect to place 20-30 ( average) components per minute.
High speed achieved, by rapid parts table movement.
Solder paste constant displacement pump finished soon.

Sorry, NO PICTURES YET.

Parts table attachment will double as an auto toolchange mechanism so all of the work is not just for electronics.

It's great for making the precision parts for it's self improvements.
Rotating head is a great feature not to be ignored.

Spend the money (if you can afford it).
Buy the factory base/cabinet. Wooden benches (don't) suck vibrations.
The about Au$600 on extras.
Buy a nice magnetic lamp base.
Buy a nice clamp kit.
Buy a nice ER collet set. I cover 0.5mm-7mm, and 6mm-26mm.
Get a nice small Tilt Vice, and a small 3 jaw chuck that you can clamp down.
Remove the silly plastic guard, attached to emrgency stop. Wear safety glasses. They work for the lathe also.

[DonF]

Originally Posted by tmarks11 Don, would you mind discussing why you went with the X3 instead of the SX3 for your conversion (besides the obvious $450 reason)? I know that the built in z axis DRO isn't really important after you CNC it. I like the idea of the direct belt drive on the SX3, since it should be quieter without the two speed gear train the X3.

A belt drive is not that hard to add. I have found at least five different pictures of different setups people have adapted to the x3 including the link above.
I bought the x3 because for $850 at my door, its a no brainer. I can dink around with it manually, and finish up a few projects. It may or may not get converted. If I do end up buying a CNC machine later instead of converting the X3. I think it would go fast if I put it on craigslist locally in a year or so for $600 or so, and the jobs it does in the mean time will more than make up the money lost. I don't like the Smithy CNC warranty and I think they are a bit on the high side for what they offer. If I had to choose a turn key CNC right now it would be Tormach, they really seem to have the right product at the right price and stand behind their products. Richard at Syil has always been helpful and friendly too their new machines look excellent, but of course they arent out yet.

http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/C11G_&_S...0storybook.pdf in an excellent link for the motor electronics if your converting a standard X3 to CNC