Newbie looking to step into machining

[Skoorb]

Greetings all! I'm almost completely new to this arena and looking to dive in head first.

I have a budget of $3000 and have been looking at RF31's and tooling with the thought in mind of purchasing a kit to upgrade to CNC at a later date. I've also been eyeballing the SYIL "educational package" with the X2 (I know, smaller machine ) but it comes already converted to CNC, with Bobcad, Mach 3, some tooling, and a BUNCH of instructional material!

The SYIL package is VERY tempting simply because it's turn key. However, the RF31 has more beef and is MUCH less expensive in the short term.

What to do?! Any thoughts you gents care to throw out here would be MOST appreciated!

Oh yes, I have quite a thick skin so feel free to be blunt.

[maxboostbusa]

It all depends on alot of different things. What type of work are you going to be doing with it ( steel, plastics, aluminum, etc.). High precision work or just milling in general. If you are going to be doing heavy milling or large parts without having to relocate then a RF or even X3 may would be a good choice. With just learning how to do alot of the little things that goes into machining the round column mills can pose more setup at times. With the round column mills you mainly use the quill for Z-axis or Depth of cut, or you lower the head. The general rule of thumb is the less of anything extended below the mill head the more solid, less likely to chatter (vibrate) and inturn lead to higher accuracy work. Everytime you move the head on the round column mills you will need to reindicate the head to the work whether it be a vise or the actual material in setup. With a square column mill like the X2 you lower the whole head for depth control and it is mounted in dovetail ways so it stays set for the most part.
Either choice would be fine I looked at both before I purchased my X2, which was at a really good deal. The bigger mill will obviously require more space, power, and a hefty table to bolt it down to. And if you want to change its location for whatever reason you better call some help over.
Another option you could do is to buy a X2 or X3 mill, get some training videos from Little Machine Shop, read everything you can on here and on other places like mini-lathe.com (they have mill info also). get some aluminum stock and start machining some practice pieces up. Then you can buy a CNC setup and make all the brackets and other odds and ends yourself. That would save some money on the CNC costs, give you some experience, and if you are trying to troubleshoot something down the road you will know "hey there was a spacer in this part and now its missing thats where the backlash came from." Just my 2 pennys though, you should get alot of opinions on various ways to go about. Welcome to the addiction.

[Smitty911]

I wanted something to mill with also. Due to space and other constraints the X-2 was purchased with the idea of going straight to CNC. I'm not a machinist, I test Fiber Optic Devices before they get used in systems. Just the ability to make some of my own fixtures was the driving reason for the purchase.

The X-2 has surprised me with it's ability to take a newbie mistake, 25ipm, 0.050 cut in aluminum, 0.25 two flute cutter, etc. etc. havn't broken anything and still have all my fingers. God watches us stupid people more closely.

I used the KDN tool CNC conversion to save time and ensure accuracy, this silly little thing surprises the two machinist at work with it's accuracy.

The Sysil would be less expensive than what I built, but I do enjoy overkill. I only wish that I had purchased the X-3 standard, that little extra travel would have already saved me some head ache.

Just my thoughts,

Smitty

[Skoorb]

Originally Posted by maxboostbusa It all depends on alot of different things. What type of work are you going to be doing with it ( steel, plastics, aluminum, etc.). High precision work or just milling in general. If you are going to be doing heavy milling or large parts without having to relocate then a RF or even X3 may would be a good choice.

The parts I have in mind will mostly be made in aluminum or brass and a few in plastic of some kind. I have a few brackets and accessories I'd like to make for my bike (Yamaha), parts for a wearable computer a friend is making for herself, maybe some artsy fartsy stuff as gifts, and misc. odd ball ideas floating around.

[sansbury]

This is like going to a bar. The cost of the mill itself is only the cover charge. The drinks are materials and especially tooling where you can easily spend the cost of the mill several times over. You will absolutely need a vise, setup blocks, measuring tools, collets, endmills, probably a clamping kit. Assuming you buy this new you can get started as cheap as maybe $200-$300. Depending on your work you may quickly find yourself in "need" of a rotary table, fly cutters, boring head, reamers, and perhaps a nice face mill.

If you are totally new I'd want to start out with a manual machine and get comfortable with that first. Nothing you buy or learn to do manually will be wasted when you go to CNC and you may find that you don't need to. I work in software and sometimes when I get time to play in the shop I want to turn the wheels by hand because programming the computer to run the job starts to feel too much like work! There are a lot of conversion kits out there for the X2 so I would personally go that way.

[BrassBuilder]

skoorb,
You sound like where I was at a year and a half ago. Personally, I would stay away from the round column mills. In my case, I hate getting the material square to everything else. Having to reindicate the head on a round column would have been one more thing to mess with.

As soon as I get my parts, my X2 is going to be converted to CNC. This has been a great mill and I feel comfortable with dumping the money into it. The mill has made everything that I've needed so far.

With that, if I was to do it all over again, I would probably go with the X3 instead or for a little more money, the Super X3. You will get a bit larger machine with a larger work envelope. It will cost a little more to CNC it, but I don't think it was much more than the X2. Last week, Grizzly had the X3 on sale for $850, but I don't know if that is still valid.

You WILL spend the cost of the machine for tooling if you go with the X2 and probably half the cost of the X3. This is just the basic stuff (mill cutters, holddown clamp set, mics, parallels, a decent vise...etc.) Throw in a rotary table and an angle plate and you will easily go over the cost of the X2.

Milling vise...don't cheap out here. The $29.95 specials on ebay are door stops. Been there, done that. I bought a better one from LMS and have been extremely happy with it.

Ummmm....what else...oh...this was already covered but I want to jump in on this too...I do not regret buying a manual mill and learning on it first. You need to "feel" what the machine is doing by turning the handles. With some practice, you can tell when you are taxing a cutter. With CNC, that is hands off. I feel comfortable going into this now after having some manual experience. In fact, looking back, there is no way I would jump into this with CNC as a newbie.

I finally decided to CNC mine because I wanted a DRO and powerfeed. Based on the parts that I wanted, I found that I could CNC the thing for a couple hundred more. I am sure, at first, that I will use the CNC as a glorified DRO/powerfeed until I get better at drawing in CAD and learning G-code.

Anyway...I hope this helps. I'll update this if I think of anything else.

Mike

[pzzamakr1980]

As a word of warning, do not purchase the rf31. If you are browsing through articles in this forum you will see the reason many people feel that the round column mills have too many drawbacks. Instead of the x2, look at the x3. I have it, I love it. I have to go to dinner but will post later on some other options besides the x2 and rf31

[Skoorb]

Thanks for the input all, I've received some pretty good advice both on and off the forum and all of it seems to point toward "Don't rush into this!!!"

I'm trying to curb my enthusiasm but it's difficult. LoL!

[BrassBuilder]

You will have fun. I remembered the primary reason I bought the X2 over the X3...cost. I figured I would spend as little money as possible to get the mini mill and lathe. I figured if the hobby kept my interest, I would upgrade the machines. If the hobby didn't, it was that much less money I had invested. Luckily, it has kept my interest. I don't really have a need for an X3 yet as the X2 seems to do everything I need it to do. That is one reason I went ahead and CNCing it. I've replaced the mini-lathe with a Clausing 100 MK3A 12" lathe (insert Tim Allen grunts). That thing is soooooo sweet!
Mike

[hybidder]

I have an EMCO (not enco) FB2 Milling machine listed on this site for sale..

http://www.cnczone.com/classifieds/s...t/1646/cat/500

This is Austrian made and there's no comparison in quality to the Chinese machines. I have a AccuRite QwikountII digital readout and appropriate scales to fit the FB2 that I will let go with it for a very very low price with the machine. You would have to mount it.

It would make an excellent manual trainer and easy CNC conversion that you would not outgrow.

[mezafits]

Hi, I'm totaly new to it my self. I just purchased a sherline 5400 and a xylotec kit with 4axis. The reason I chose that mill was because of size, I live in an appartment and I needed something that was easily portable and wont take up alot of room. I'm going to start off milling diffrent odd things for robotics projects out of plastics and maybe even some wood. At first I may even work with styrofoam just so that I keep matrial cost way down. I play to waste alot of material at first. I'm gonna be using Mach 3 and the studen version of solidworks. But after looking at things like mastercam and various other industry tools I see that there is a HUGE world of milling thats way more complex than I originally concieved. I'm a computer science major so milling is a little out of my forte, but I have been working on car engines for about 10 years now so I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty. I'm currently searching around here and looking at a few other resources for bigginers. I hoping to get an A axis setup on my CNC here by March, cause I know that the kinda stuff I'm milling is gonna atleast need an A axis. I have seen alot of video's freely available and various tutorials for diffrent software packages so I am excited that there seems to be a wealth of support. I plan at first to just practice milling a few basic shapes and then move on to more complex items, take it slow and all. I havent bought any bits for my cnc yet , but I have most of the necessary micrometers for measuring tolerances already. Is there a good place I can get a small cheap set of bits to start with. Like for under 100 dollars, just maybe 5 or 6 diffrent bits that will hold up for general plastic/wood use?

[ZipSnipe]

Skoorb ya sound like me a couple of years ago. Ya probably think the cnc stuff is really neat and it is. But you want to get into it but ya don't have a lot of stuff to make to really justify getting into it, ya just want to. Let me say this if ya don't plan to make money with it don't spend alot. The X3 is nice and the r31 is big but for the money you can get a r45 square column if ya got the shop space(this is a very important). For all your tooling Ebay is awesome for all that stuff. If you really want to dive head first into cnc then you better read the forums here for awhile to see what people are using and what their doing with it. Software(cad/cam) is your biggest hurdle. I use Mastercam after trying several freebies I settled on Mastercam(mainly because where I work they have it) I didn't like it at first but after watching some tutorials on it I,m picking it up rather quickly. Anyway there are many options like I said if ya don't plan to make money then don't invest alot. Good Luck !!!